BitLayer V2 unlocks Bitcoin DeFi with smart contracts

0:01I'm Ashen Addison from the Cryptocoin Show and today on blockchain interviews we have Charlie who co-founder of Bit Layer here to talk about the Bitcoin ecosystem, unlocking liquidity in Bitcoin with the Bit VM and much much more. Charlie, welcome to the show and thanks for taking the time. >> Thanks Ashton. Thanks for having me. >> Yeah, exciting times right now with

0:22Bitcoin continuing to break all-time highs every day. This morning I saw that 123,000 American which is amazing and not a lot of retail interest I think. So I think we have a ways to go but there is a lot of interest in exploring deeper into the Bitcoin ecosystem unlocking more Bitcoin liquidity uh potential ecosystems beyond just a store of value because some

0:45people believe that Bitcoin is much more than that. I would love to t to touch on those topics today and maybe we could start by what you and your team have been building at Bit Layer, how it relates to the Bitcoin ecosystem and then we can dive into all those topics. >> Sure. Yeah, thanks for having me again once again. Um, so quickly about my background also the team's background a

1:06bit. Uh, I've been in space since 2015. Bought my first Bitcoin in 2013 in Amsterdam. Get to know Ethereum early in Berlin, you know, on the Ethereum coin and so on. Obviously um things get me really full-time joined the industry as a career is from 2016 17 more from like Ethereum start talking about programmability and all interoperability you know solution my

1:29first major involvement was polka dot uh from 2017 1718 and D5 summer really gets me very excited about all the use cases uh so was pretty early on the D5 summer 2020 I joined polygon was leading the ecosystem apac region for them uh in 2021 so that was a very exciting cycle last time last bull cycle learned a lot you know working with a lot of developers engineers got to know the

1:52space very deeply and you know the the the the moment I orange peel myself was the first week of ordinos when they came out early 2023 and uh you know and but the pivotal moment for me to feel like okay this is a project I want to deep dive being the founder you know you know contributing to the space and not just an investor or adviser or ecosystem

2:12builder actually the big VM M white paper. So October 2023 when we saw the white paper you know get published by Robin Linus and also the Bitcoin community and I was also kind of debating with you a lot of those folks because at the time Bitcoin was very congested people like me were paying tens even hundreds of dollars you know hardearned bitcoin for gas fees

2:33right with all the ming and everything I feel like okay bitcoin shouldn't be designed like that forever you know we you know we should have a real use cases and not just all this garbage txo paying tens tens of dollars, you know, with all the per transaction fees, we why why why while why while you don't have actually real Pokemon for DeFi, right? So that

2:53was kind of pivotal moment for us to really feel without actually OPCAD and BIP, we can actually be able to unlock unlock liquidity with BVM bridge and doing potential Bitcoin security equivalent roll up. So that was kind of the exciting moment for us to really deep dive. So I we quickly assembled a team with my co-founder Kevin who has been in the space almost eight years as

3:15well. We know each other since 2021. So the team background of bit layer uh we uh the team combined with the key engineering team from the XOBI exchange who built a heckle ecosystem chain and some earlier contributor for Celestia and also the super chain team from Alibaba many years ago who was kind of the original solution contributed a lot of the parallel execution EDM which

3:39actually now is part of the core solution for me and Monet. So that's kind of the the T capability key capability we have combine ZK high scalable public chain layer one with you know um you know Bitcoin research. So that's on the technical side. Um so far we have around 35 engineers and researchers full-time one of the largest you know tech team in the Bitcoin

3:59ecosystem among all the side chains or L2s and uh yeah we launched our V1 minet last April. So far we made over 65 million transactions, over 250 projects already deployed on our mainet. Uh we raised 25 million last year led by Polychain, Franken Tempton and many other pretty solid VCs and very supportive you know OGs and Bitcoin folks. We're one of the first team

4:23actually get supported by the top Bitcoin mining pools and pool F2 Spider. So over one-third of Bitcoin hash rate actually supporting our BVM bridge. Uh you know also potentially we activate that Bitcoin as well. We want to share our bridging fees to as a re new revenue stream to the top bitcoin mining pools and they process handle our nonstandard transactions. So with that said I think

4:47where we are on bit layer uh we are about to launch our v2 version of a vivian bridge mainet which is the new generation bitcoin bridging solution uh which is more trust minimized compared to the rapid btc multisync approach and uh we're going to launch our own rowup as well which is not just side chain. So that's kind of in a nutshell about myself and the team of Blayer.

5:09>> Yeah, really appreciate that, Charlie. And that's an amazing background working with all the different different blockchain protocols uh throughout the years and sort of combining all of that knowledge to bring it back to Bitcoin. And I want to touch on on the V2 mainet here in a minute because that's a huge announcement and years in the working.

5:29But I I want to dive a little bit more into high level on on the BitVM and and bit layer because I think a lot of people they understand from a high level that BitVM is like we want to do DeFi like Ethereum but we want to do it on Bitcoin but they don't really understand exactly how it works. They've never actually moved their Bitcoin out of the wallet. They've probably done some

5:50swapping on on unis swap on Ethereum but they're like but how does that actually translate to to Bitcoin and what can I do and is it different? So maybe you could touch a little bit more on BitVM and exactly what you can do with bit layer. >> Yeah, thank you for asking the question. So a couple of facts to share, right? You you know, unis swirl is built on the

6:09auto automatic market making kind of AM model, right? It's enabled by the Ethereum EVM smart contract. Uh Bitcoin is UTXO cache system. It doesn't really have the native built-in smart contract mechanism. So it's like we can't really compare um you know Apple and a pair so to speak, right? It's very different system. One is proof of work UTXO cache system very secure very decentralized

6:32>> but uh pretty slow a lot of caveat a lot of limitation and no programmability right on the other side Ethereum is now proof of stake now right you know it's with merge uh you know a lot of e5 stuff already kind of battle tested with last seven years um but they have quite some issue with all the L2s right like so many L2s right very fragmented liquidity

6:54and many other things which we Ethereum also need to have a lot of problem to fix, right? Which Ethereum foundation team in the last two years has been pretty struggling to to be honest and fix that. >> Mhm. >> And I think we can tell we can tell from the price chart, right? You know, I think for the Bitcoiners definitely winning and Bitcoin as assets is

7:13outperforming the rest of the world. >> Uh but I think we do see the estimate potential to unlock Bitcoin liquidity which is such a big large cap now, right? It's getting close to three trillion market cap of Bitcoin. M >> if it's 10% of that it's 300 billion it's bigger than the entire TVL and a total lot of value of Ethereum across all the L1's and L2s.

7:33>> So we when we talk about Bitcoin D5 so we also need to analyze the demand and supply side. Mhm. >> So Bitcoiners in the past they have no yield in the last 15 years, right? You are mining Bitcoin, huddling Bitcoin, buying Bitcoin, that's it. You may do some transactions with Lightning, but that's very limited and the adoption is uh fairly small. Um basically there was

7:56no real mass adoption use cases, right? And you you don't really do DeFi like lending all that in Bitcoin and it doesn't really allow you, right? And then people actually paying custody fees to hold your Bitcoin, right? with all the custo custodian platform everything. Um some of them uh obviously have the best practice which is self- custody but there's no yield right so it's either

8:17paying custody fees through a like qualified custodian or you do the hard wallet kind of a model which is self custody but no yield I think we believe the potential especially with the new bitcoin holders coming through the ETF many other new bitcoiners coming on board they are kind of gradually exploring okay I'm having my bitcoin what's the yield opportunity right what

8:38kind of uses we can Can we even do native Bitcoin security level kind of use cases right even with prediction market onchain option protocol and so on. So I would say three years ago the demand was very small but after the ordinance and after all the kind of exploring a lot of builder you know vibe come back to bitcoin as well the demand of exploring use cases using

9:01bitcoin as liquidity as underlying assets you know access to bitcoin security because because transaction can potentially settle back to bitcoin through the approach. I think the demand is getting higher and higher across the retail and institution. So we seen that by firsthand talking to all these potential users or some of them are already actually using our chain in the

9:21last 12 months. >> So that's that said on the demand side on the supply side I do see a lot of builders coming back to Bitcoin. A lot of them actually getting very excited when they see okay there's a potential infrastructure we can do the rollup model with the sequencer right which is EVN compatible but have the Bitcoin settlement we call this Bitcoin finality

9:41through our recursive proof and a bit approach. So state transition can verified through our BVM verifier to actually settle through our recursive proof on Bitcoin block. So it's Bitcoin security not just side chain security. So that's actually pretty exciting for a lot of builders. And then while we are EVM or when why we are EVM is because we believe EVM is here to stay with the

10:04biggest adoption across all the D5 builders. We don't want de developers who have been building D5 in the last two or three years to learn a new language to recode everything from scratch and have this hard like experience of deployment right so for D5 users to you know no matter it's EVM or non EVM to deploy on bill layer is pretty smooth and pretty straightforward

10:25they don't have to learn a new language actually you know spend like months to have the deployment so that's actually easy for adoption so I think that's kind of the balance we want to keep right to While I easily onboard a lot of the battle tested DeFi protocols from the builder side which is already happening on a lot of the EVM or non EVM layer ones which is outside of

10:44Bitcoin space but I let them access to the Bitcoin liquidity right right on the other side we've been actively talking to a lot of Bitcoin miners and Bitcoin whales potentially to unlock the Bitcoin security right and Bitcoin liquidity let them to have little taste about how does Bitcoin defi yield look like right so I think the sweet spot is exploring the

11:05bitcoin yield with different type of a risk assump risk assumption defy protocols the yield look like 4% to 10 but with different layers of risks you know there's no free kind of launch per se right but I think for quite some of the you know the the bitcoin holders they want to explore you know with fairly risk adjusted you know good return so that's that's kind of how we

11:29see the adoption gradually increasing you know over uh over the time yeah >> that's very exciting And say I had a bunch of Bitcoin and I've, you know, I've never staked Ethereum. I've seen staking tab in the centralized exchange, but this is different. How does that process works? I I go to the platform and I still have custody of the Bitcoin and then I can do a single-sided staking

11:52for a certain percentage and is there multiple financial products that you get to choose from? >> Yeah. So, uh, so basically two products we're offering from Blayer side. is our BVM bridge right which the the it's a lock UTXO m destination chain kind of a bridging solution the key difference between us and the WBDC is WBDC is essentially centralized multi-c kind of

12:15a approach for the bridging uh where we are we're building using Bitcoin script to build this uh onchain fraud proof approach so the trust assumption is not majority honest is just one out of model as long as one operator within our BVM uh bridge operator committee is honest. We able to make sure when there's a malicious transaction happening, we can

12:36uh initiate the challenge game and make sure the transaction the malicious transaction wouldn't go through. Right? So that's kind of how we maintain the security, it's much more decentralized and secure secure than the you know WPC approach. So once the the the native bitcoin is minted on the destination chain let's say it's on arbitron or even like three and other nonvm chains we we

12:59have this one to1 pack the ybtdc which is a yield bearing BTC product we're creating so users can explore different type of yield across different protocols no matter it's lending you know liquidity provision on dexes or others so I think that's kind of the part we seeking all kinds of partnership from different ecosystem u so a couple months ago we had announcement with SU and our

13:20YBDC and Bivian bridge we we're integrating with SW ecosystem potentially working with some of the top D5 protocols uh like blue Navi you know momentum and so on the next one will be Salana which going to announce upcoming weeks and with their top D5 protocol like Camino and so on so that that's on the previum bridge side on the rollup side which is also very important piece

13:44of technology so that's a key difference between uh the Bitcoin native rowup uh and with which is Bitcoin security equivalent uh compared to the side chains. So we all know Bitcoin has a few side chains which is OG project like such as rootock and stacks >> stacks is a calam calamity you know bitcoin side chain rooto is vn compatible uh they had a you know they

14:06started pretty many years ago um but they I think they could have a lot of adoption but it didn't really happen right and I think the key difference infrastructure wise between what we aiming to build compared to roottocker stacks is we are bitcoin security because of the the BVM verification components we want to verify and settle on Bitcoin block. Um

14:28the that's on the security different side. Uh side chains only chain security right it's maintained by the validators on the side chain. >> The second difference is the economic alignment with the miners through our BVM uh verification components. The fees will be contributing back to the Bitcoin mainet to the miners. So that's kind of the economics uh new revenue stream we

14:49want to contribute as a security budget right to the to the Bitcoin community. Uh that's actually very important. um upcoming you know uh multiple rounds of having miners can still have the you know enough economic incentive to maintain the hash rate right to make sure bitcoin is very secure I think that's kind of the hard questions uh you know being discussed you know heavily in

15:11the bitcoin community especially across the miners so I think the new revenue stream we can contribute with our ecosystem is very important as a value adding to the bitcoin community right and having the support from the bitcoin miners as like a mutually win-win situation kind of dynamics very important. So these are the two reasons and key difference we we compare when we

15:30comparing with like Bitcoin side chains. So back to the question right with the BBM bridge with our rollup model we want we want to build a lot of the D5 use cases some of them natively built on billion or rollup which is upcoming and a bitcoin security equivalent or some of them are exploring the yield from different side system EVM or non EVM and obviously with different

15:54yield you know people take different type of risks and we want to make sure it's transparent it's permissionless it's a liberal market with yield and liquid providers and also your yield providers And uh we want to enable that with our infrastructure piece. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Appreciate that explanation, Charlie. And it makes sense. The side chains, you know, they've been around

16:13for a long time before when Bitcoin was very small and they've never really picked up. Something needs to be done differently. I think Bit Layer is incorporating more of the main chain of Bitcoin properly than some of these side chains. So, I'm excited to see, especially with the interest in Bitcoin picking up, the ETF uh breaking the records for, you know, the the largest

16:36uh purchases of any ETF ever in in just a year and a half. Now, >> talking about ETF, right, there's one comment I want to mention. Uh we want we one of the first Bitcoin project getting supported actively by the ETF issuer Franken Tempton. So, they lead our series A round last year. we've been actively talking to their you know you know venture team of course the you know

16:57on the liquid side as well with ETF firms or other institutions right which we see a lot of them come in you know which contributed billions of dollars of you know buy pressure from ETF and they actually actively exploring yield products >> I think the next way big wave unlock is SEC going to approve the Bitcoin ETF staking >> right so without that approved actually

17:18a lot of the public public listed company who have been having bitcoin treasury kind exposure. They're not actually legally able to do all kinds of legal strategy, right? You know, they can't really manu manipulate or move around their Bitcoin assets, you know, in the custody >> which we I think some of the eventually will be on Bitcoin. So that's actually the big unlock across all the

17:43institution because now a lot of institution no matter it's ETF issuer or a lot of the you know buy side you know liquid funds they're holding a lot of bitcoin right so this is the next wave of big adoption we're going to see not just the retail not just the bitcoin guys and someos guys and miners but actually a lot of the retail uh across different kind of category here. Yeah,

18:03it's a great point because I think there are a lot of retail long-term self-custody Bitcoin holders that are interested in this. Uh, but if you look at the top holders of Bitcoin now over the past 2 years, you know, those ETF issuers are like up there with Sailor and and Satoshi and that's so much Bitcoin um to and if that can be able to start earning a yield, that's great. But

18:28I think it's the legislation. you know, they probably want to, but you have to follow all the rules and and wait for uh the right regulatory clarity to get that to happen. >> Exactly. Well, ETF approved last year, early last year, right? Look at us, you know, Bitcoin almost 5x I think more than 5x now, right? Just just basically with one spot ETF. So, we can clearly

18:52see the institutions option is already here. It's not the future. But the next step once we when they are holding the bitcoin which a lot of them actually don't want to sell you know just you know actually exit out in the next two one or two years even like five to 10 years right I think they're going to actively explore all kinds of you know uh financialization strategy so what are

19:10the right pro you know components right products right infrastructure for them that's the biggest kind of the potential we want to be one of the first frontier kind of infrastructure to to serve those kind of demand and so that's why we are talking to a lot of institutions you know I mentioned Frank content we we actually talking to many others like as

19:27well and I think that's a new market we are want to serve right which is not there two year like before two years ago right >> yeah definitely it's exciting I'm looking forward to that and earlier you mentioned about the V2 mainet launch which is it's a huge uh thing that's just been in the works for you know over a year since the since the first version

19:50um congratulations on on that launch can you talk about what's the difference and upgrades and and know what's capable now with with the V2. >> Yeah. Yeah. Thanks a for asking this. So I think by the time the video out we already officially announced with all the media coverage. So it's been 18 months we've been working doing research about BVM. BVM evolved from BVM one to

20:12BVM 2 and now there's some new solution and ideas and optimization we call BVM3. So Bill is one of the uh key kind of contributing team in the BVM alliance. uh we've been uh very deep dive doing research and engineering work on the BVM bridge. Uh it's uh the BVM2 kind of uh you know battle test you know solution with our own optimization. So the key

20:36difference of BVM bridge compared to the original uh old generation Bitcoin bridging solution which is just a side uh which is a multisc. The diff is on trust assumption right. So the multisc we you basically let the bitcoiners sign the bitcoin to the multisc wallets and uh the the multisc wallets is being managed maintained by uh let's say a federation of the signers right so I

21:00think the problem with multisc is there's a lot of actually multisc hacks happened in the space right the one of the most recent one is actually the bbit hack right it was it was essentially just genosis safe multisc hacks multiple of the private key multis signers actually got fooled by the hackers on the UI side right so I think we can somehow agree uh with all the hacks have

21:23been the history you know multisc is not the best bitcoin bridging solution if we talk about trust minimizer approach so with our approach and our solution it's one out of model so as mentioned so as long as one security operator in our brievian bridge committee is honest they have the incentive economically and also you know security wise to initiate

21:44challenge game to make sure when they see some potential malicious transactions happening on the bridge, they able to verify that and if it's it's indeed a malicious transaction, they can stop the bridging, you know, make sure the users don't lose their funds and stuff like that. Yeah, that >> so that's kind of the key >> that's super important, you know,

22:04because with with that buy hack, you'd think multi-IG would be more more secure, but they lost like over a billion dollars and it was mainly in in Ether and but then they of course the funds were moved to Bitcoin because they realized that Bitcoin uh was sort of the ultimate asset. >> Yeah. Well, and also because of the privacy and censorship and resistance,

22:26you know, reason, right? So I think it's very important to make sure bit you know bitcoin funds is secure and having the best you know the new generation better infrastructure to maintain security is important. So that's kind of a very key components and the first principle right for Bitcoin defi to really happen right and the second components is you know

22:44which we are going to gradually launching you know is our B layer rollup right so that's a complex system which we want to enable this uh BVM verification components to verify transaction happening on our ecosystem on our chain through our recursive proof and through the chunk approach so it's bitcoin security not side chain security and it's verified settled Bitcoin block.

23:07So when we believe things settle on Bitcoin is secure because Bitcoin have have highest level of security, we can trust the transaction is being verified is being you know proved. Uh you know that's kind of the security you want to achieve. So this is kind of the new generation frontier infrastructure happening in the Bitcoin space. Uh it's very new. There's a lot of nuances. We

23:28are very you know exciting to launch that soon with finalizing a lot of the auditing work. We're working with the best security auditing firm in the world to make sure you know we don't have uh some of the security bugs and we optimize the whole thing before we fully launch it. So we're going to have the beta version and then we can launch the the production version very soon. So our

23:48V2 have two components I mentioned right the BVM bridge we are production ready we are fully audited we're going to launch that you know to be ready for the retail users and for the upcoming institution as well and also our bit rollup it's a gradual process we hopefully going to launch and you know with beta with you know the production you know all that in the next two

24:08monthses it's a very important kind of piece of technology you know I think it's going to enable uh new frontier of bitcoin defi use cases right? You know, to settle on the Bitcoin rollup. So, I think that's kind of how we want to we seeing the potential. We hope we can on board the new users, right? A lot of the Bitcoin holders. We are already working with, you know, a

24:31couple million Bitcoin users, right? Actively, you using our infrastructure and across different protocols to, you know, do all kinds of use cases. But with the new V2 infrastructure, it's going to be better performance, high level security. And you know, of course, we want to make make sure better use cases with interesting product design innovation happening on our ecosystem as

24:51well. We already have over 200 protocols, but we want to make sure some of the high potential very novel design use cases will actually be supported by us, by our infrastructure, by our liquidity as well. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's very exciting, Charlie. And I think the security is of utmost importance because when people have Bitcoin, they're looking for a yield

25:13maybe and the goal is to really have more Bitcoin and the last thing that you want is to lose the principal Bitcoin that you have. And I think many people might not understand when you have those side chains, you know, say you have a side chain that you know, Bitcoin is a multi-trillion dollar asset and the proof of work is is helping secure that. the side chain might only be a few

25:33hundred million and that you're when you move assets from what I understand you're sort of relying on that level of security and if an ETF issuer has billions in Bitcoin they and they somehow that had a malicious attack it would be much easier to lose it if you had a side chain when you're actually backing on the security of Bitcoin itself that's a multi-t trillion dollar

25:56security level that you're protected by. >> Exactly. That's the whole point of the infrastructure gap we want to fill out, right? You know, uh when there's a uh some security issues happening, you know, with event asset needs to be able to pull back to Bitcoin, you know, smoothly. So, that's kind of the rowup model architecture we are building, you know, which is better than the side

26:16chain, you know, kind of framework. >> That's awesome. And on the uh the options for, you know, you have Bitcoin, you're looking at different yields. Um from what I understand there's the EVM of course sui which is cool and the move ecosystem and then salana is also coming. So is the goal to sort of provide as many options possible for how people can drive liquidity with their

26:41bitcoin. Yeah, it's a it's a new it's a very nuanced take we see exploring um I think with the goal we want to you know unlock bitcoin liquidity right you know empower the bitcoin defi it's actually a multi- ecosystem approach it's not a bitcoin maxi approach you everything stuck on the bitcoin at one that's it actually multi ecosystem the different ecosystem

27:05have different kind of yield products with different kind of API you know y rate and obviously different underly right so our mission is to enable that with our infrastructure with our BVM bridge with our rollup and also working with different type of D5 use case across different ecosystem to provide the liberal decentralized kind of uh you know yield markets across different

27:27ecosystem for bitcoiners. So the YPDC can explore yield across different ecosystems and obviously with our uh blay roll up and also eventually next year we're going to launch our V3 version which is parallel EV EVM parallel execution kind of high throughput you know infrastructure piece we want to empower high frequent high performance kind of a trading protocol

27:49such as onchain per dexes bitcoin based on you know option protocols which can be trading on our you know new piece of infrastructure and it's actually real time execution and much faster transaction. I think the bitcoiners can have access to a lot of different use cases across different you know landscape and that's kind of our mission right so that's uh

28:11how we are seeing uh you know the the relationship between us and other ecosystem and uh it's not like one lay layer two or one one chain takes all kind of per se but I think key components like we use bitcoin as gas fee bitcoin is the the main the main primarily you know liquidity assets you know it's bitcoiners trying to explore yield and uh eventually

28:34transaction will be set on bitcoin block. So this is kind of the key uh kind of our first principle we want to follow as our infrastructure design. Yeah >> that's exciting. And in the process of say I have Bitcoin on a cold storage wallet or a cold wallet, how how do you balance that the the security but also the convenience of how can we start getting liquidity and yield in sort of

29:01as little understanding technically as possible without having to be a developer? Have you guys streamlined that process of like just a few clicks to be able to actually get into the ecosystem and start earning? >> Yeah. Yeah. So our Vivian bridge uh you know the website already live. So anybody who has the Bitcoin wallet, you know, which can be connected, you know,

29:22the software on the website, you know, um, you know, obviously hardware is an interface as well, right? They can lock the UTXO, you know, and enter the BVM bridge and actually through the desk, then they want to bridge to the destination chain, no matter it's Ethereum L1 or other non EVM chains with the their their web3 wallet, they're able to mint out the

29:43YPTC. So once the YPDC is out, we you know we we offer all kinds of like yield components protocols on a destination chain as a collaboration. So that's kind of the the UX we designing and we see quite a lot of retail users kind of exploring that with our beta version. In the future with some institution we're going to design some kind of institutional

30:13UX experience. You know you bitcoiners actually need to can actually natively explore the yield components built in in their qualified custodian platform. Right. I think in the next phase we'll be exploring that integration with ledger with treasure with all the hardware wallets platform right as well um you know I think the UX part is something we are pretty exciting looking

30:37forward to explore to make sure it's very seamless very um it doesn't have to learn a lot of things for the users and bitcoiners to break their habit to explore that kind of your components I think that's a very key uh piece we wanted to make sure you know it's uh easy to use. It's easy to opt in kind of yield components and then a lot of Bitcoiners wants to uh be able to get

31:01the yield back, you know, in a fairly easy way and simple way. I think that's kind of the UX pro problem and the kind of solutions we're going to looking forward to to explore and get fixed with our partners and so it's a combined efforts and I think that the ecosystem partners are already kind of very big expert you know to to deliver those kind of solutions. So we actually talking to

31:22quite a lot of what partners, infrastructure UX partners to make sure this a very sound, easy to use kind of a process. Yeah, >> that's very exciting. I would love to see that integrations with their hardware wallets and even inside of the the wallet, you know, they don't even have to hear about Bit Layer. They just see earn your yield and it all integrates through. Uh so I'm looking

31:43forward to that and um congratulations again on the V2 mainet launch. Is there a best place to learn about uh the launch and follow with these future updates of the other chains and everything else? >> Sure, absolutely. Um, so I think the best way to follow uh for the web three native users is follow our Twitter Blay Labs. We you're going to see by the time

32:08the video is out, I think you probably see the the the the media announcement with a lot of the documentation of the BVM bridge and our V2 details. And we have for the engineers or developers who wants to explore working with us and deploy their use case smart contract on our network docs at bitlay.org and it's our git book with a lot of documentation. It's pretty

32:30self-explanatory and for retail users right who want to explore different type of campaigns reward kind of you know activities we going to kick off our booster campaign with Binance wallet and for the Binance wallet users I think it's pretty exciting campaign to access and have exposure getting reward from bit layer ecosystem and you know try have a taste about the use case we have

32:52you know no matter it's actually lending uh option protocols liquid staking and other things uh we have a few kind of interesting onchain tasks we are offering to the potential users. So that's kind of the the reward we want to incentivize to the early adopter. Uh that's actually upcoming in the upcoming weeks which we very exciting we want on board

33:15new users to the bitcoin defi from the binance wallet first and from other platform later. Yeah I think uh we're going to kick off the ecosystem governance with our governance token launching fairly soon as well. So for the token holders we can participate the the governance components with voting with fee switch and you know to be part of the key you know members and you know

33:35ambassador in the ecosystem. So that's the part we are looking forward start from the professional validator kind of the companies to some of the engineers or retail users that have been active you know having and enthusiastic in the bitcoin the defy space. Yeah, >> very exciting and I will definitely be checking out the the governance token being able to shape the future of

33:56Bitcoin uh liquidity and yield is exciting. Um I I'll leave a link to uh in the show notes for the X uh the socials and the platform as well. Charlie, I really appreciate your insights into being able to bring liquidity to the Bitcoin ecosystem, the new security measures and ensuring that people's principal Bitcoin is safe and secure and able to earn a yield and

34:18looking forward to seeing the regulation come in for ETF holders and everyone uh that has billions of dollars of Bitcoin and leading into trillions uh to secure their Bitcoin and earn yield. Um, thank you so much for the insights. Congratulations on the second mainet launch and let's definitely follow up in the near future. >> Absolutely. It was very nice to talk to

34:40you actually. Thank you for all the amazing questions. Looking forward to the next step and next shows maybe. Yeah.