Units Network launches mainnet mid-September on Waves

0:01I'm Ashton from the crypto Coin Show and today on blockchain interviews we have back with us Sasha Ivanov founder of waves as well as units Network a newer L2 ecosystem that I'm excited to dive into today Sasha welcome back uh hion thanks for having me again you're very welcome uh you know there's been a lot of discussion around uh layer twos from what I understand uh units

0:25network is helping bridge in evm compatibility um and you know way has been in OG blockchain since uh coming up on a decade now um and it's still going strong I would love for you to just start with sort of a uh a picture paint a picture for people on uh waves how units Network fits into that and and and then we'll move forward from there uh yeah basically as I said W is a

0:53very old chain launched in 2016 and now we're like I think we're are making a very logical move uh we are turning waves into an ecosystem of interconnected layer TOS so uh waves uh is going to become some kind of like connecting layer it's going to become layer one and even layer zero you know it's because it's just like brings all those chains together and those layer uh

1:21twos actually will be properly decentralized because they're going to be uh using the consensus uh guarantees that uh EX resistant waves and it mean that uh for example each uh layer will be uh supported not by one sequence Ser as it usually happens in layer but by multiple validators so it mean that those layers become proper uh layer ones actually so uh and I think this is some

1:51kind of like end game for Layer Two narrative when you have a very robust basis layer eum for example or maybe waves and and uh all uh like consensus guarantees are established in this layer and then you use those guarantees you basically export them to the layers above and those layers become like properly interconnected interoperable and basically they work on the same uh

2:20security assumptions that uh the basis layer uses so this is in my opinion is the end game of layer to narrative and maybe even like scalability blockchain for the next decade so this is what uh I think eum ecosystem is doing as well uh and I just want to like implement this like end game solution faster yeah no that makes total sense and there's there's the interoperability

2:48there's also the scalability uh I want to talk more about the the interoperability because waves blockchain has been around since 2016 and when you're sort of running your own chain uh different from the the evm ecosystem um you know there's all of the different types of daps you can get uh dex's nfts all of that kind of stuff but it's a little bit harder to connect back

3:12to other blockchains uh and with the growth of layer 2s on ethereum in the past two years uh it seems like so many chains have been able to scale and be interoperable of moving assets back and forth so how big is this for for the waves ecosystem to tie into the huge Network effect that that ethereum has built over the last decade uh yes of course you know if you

3:38have Network effect it's something that is very important and I always mention that as well when you have like a market leader uh usually uh it's very hard to compete because that market leader gets bigger and bigger you know because he have this network effect When leaders attract more users and uh yeah this is how it works uh but uh in certain cases

4:06you know uh situation can actually change because uh for such projects as etherum it's really hard to move fast you know and I think there is some Niche for competition still in layer to narrative and scalability narrative uh and let's see how how it's going to be like in five to 10 years you know so I think that um in five or maybe like maybe in a decade we will see a

4:35totally new uh crypto e system uh because new new narratives will emerge and it's not set in stone yet I think it's somehow uh set in stone for a few more years and we still want to uh try to compete because I think we can move faster but what will happen afterwards nobody knows I think know because I I can see this like some kind of end game

5:04for blockchain scalability uh more in short to medium run when you have this L to narrative uh been executed uh completely and uh we will basically I think uh cover uh all that we want to have in blockchain space using this like Layer Two narrative and we will have enough chains to

5:32support all the apps uh for maybe the next decade we are not there yet for sure so I think different projects are moving toward that goal uh ethereum is moving there as well maybe we can maybe we probably won't uh win you know so we won't be like the biggest uh layer to ecosystem uh but I think there is there is still space for everyone and we can W

6:01has always tried to do something else you know so we try to go into like different directions maybe not so popular directions not so uh like not so direction that were not like the mainstream so to say you know so and I think this is this has been our uh purpose you know so we are doing more of the same now we are trying maybe to be

6:29more adjusted to the current uh Market narratives because layer to narrative is very big and you know why why am I doing this actually because I think we don't have any other options for blockchain scalability at the moment nobody has come up with anything better than layer to narrative you have like monolithic blockchains like Solana uh they provide

6:51some kind of other direction for scalability but they're they're like less decentralized obviously you know because yeah they have their advantages uh but they're not so decentralized and have their two narrative which basically uh multip multiplies your black Space by connecting like separate layers to to an underlying um big robust layer you know and this narrative is inevitable and it

7:22has to be like executed uh fully now and until we have done that I think we won't have any in narrative and scalability so let's do it fast and then let's see whether uh we need more blockchains or what we have built is sufficient you know so it might happen that we just don't need any more block space any more blockchains you Al so and we don't have

7:50any applications besides mem coins and in this case I think salana would be sufficient yeah I know there's some great points there uh about the centralization I've seen the salana blockchain have some issues uh you know almost went down a few times and there's some founding team that just manually turns it back on not very decentralized um on the scalability side you know I'm

8:16curious on the if there's any quantifiable amount on from the layer one blockchain or just the original waves chain moving to a layer two how much faster or cheaper can it actually get uh it's going to be very cheap because currently we is a very cheap blockchain transactions cost like less than one cent the same will apply to

8:46those layer uh layers with on top in terms of like uh throughput it's going to be like 1,000 transs per second more or less uh and it's like you will have your like own proper ethereum chain you know all to yourself more L you know so because uh e can handle maybe I don't know 10 million transtions per day uh here you will have a bit more uh so and it will

9:16like fully compatible with eum so it's not modified theum with eum uh as it is without any modifications uh and I think it's very important because evm is some kind of like industry standard people uh like a lot of coders know solidity and in any case even if e like isn't so popular maybe in 10 years I think we will have evm and we will have solidity because this has established

9:45itself pretty well so yes it's very important uh to offer uh product like that where you can launch your own chain in a very fast uh and efficient way and this is what we want to do in terms of like uh our selling proposition so the goal is to enable a very simple process for launching your own blockchain so it goes uh like that basically you make a

10:12proposal in the ecosystem doll the community votes for you and your chain is activated like within three to five days and you don't need to run your own validators because uh uh you basically uh you use uh the current wellat community and they support and maintain your chain so you didn't need to like uh maintain your own noes uh and basically get into

10:41connectivity to all ecosystem chains and also we have like uh projects that bridging projects that will connect you to external ecosystems so basically you can transfer tets from uh ethereum and other chains so yeah this sounds kinding like complete package you know so you get your own chain you get bridging uh to internal and external ecosystems you

11:06get support from Community because there is a doll there is uh the ecosystem doll that also has treasury funds 10% of unit second Supply goes to the do treasury and uh do participants will be able to decide what to do with those funds so basically they can distribute some GR or even invest some projects so yeah you have everything so we want to complete

11:35uh we want to like create an ecosystem that will be complete uh in terms of like uh technical preposition and also in terms of like internal structure and governance structure so it has to be self sustainable because everything is going to be like d govern and I think it's very important people are like forgetting about like decentralization uh and uh uh uh dos now you know and I

12:02think this is like in my opinion uh the biggest promise of crypto is uh decentral decentralized governments you know so if we are able to create uh structures and and architectures that can exist basically on their own so to say you know so you have some like governance structure with which is self- sustaining and it has like checks and

12:30balances to prevent abuse this will be you know the most important thing that crypto uh brings us you know so it's it's nice to be able to launch your own meme coin but probably understand that it's more or less uh gambling and it's it's a lot of fun probably you know but I don't think it's changing the world and if we can change the world through crypto I think it will be through

12:56decentralized governance that can be implemented only using blockchain technology because without it you can't do any kind of like governance independent uh from uh centralized actors and the only chance to create something new in terms of governance is to make it decentralized so I really believe in it and I'm trying to implement this idea also in more

13:23technical platforms that we are creating uh because probably we could use we could launch uh units without this model uh but in in my opinion it's very important to make sure that the SEC system will exist uh even in case uh something happens to myself I don't know or Ina has to exist like you know this situation with telegram now probably following so

13:51B uh D has been arrested and Tom Price crashed because basically everything depends on one person you know in the secet system and if you take this person out somehow in some way you know the whole ecosystem uh is jeopardized you know so it shouldn't be like that now the blockchain is meant to make those things impossible you know it it doesn't

14:21have to depend on one person it has to depend on the protocol and if the protocol is stable uh you know so you don't you won't have those situations which we uh experience now for example in a situation with Del fa yeah no that's a great point and I agree with you on the decentralization um to be able to uh have everything you know to have the

14:48proper voting structure or governance you need the blockchain for that but there's so many different parts to a company that need to be moved into more of a dow structure that uh it's like where do you start you know there's so many moving pieces um and I feel like there's a lot of experimentation going on on uh with Dows right now I think it's great um but it's tough to make the

15:13perfect Dow um because I I think there still needs to be more experimentation that's done absolutely and we trying to do that so basically we you've been running uh and you protocol leaves for two years by now uh it's like I it's not so different from other dolls but there is a very important thing that actually makes it different there is some kind of like

15:41accountability for decision- making process so when there's some kpi set at uh at the Dow launch and if this kpi is met uh decision makers are rewarded if it's not met they're like being punished or slashed uh their governance power is been diminished and basically they uh they basically lose their tokens and their their tokens are burnt you know so and it creates some

16:10kind of like feedback mechanism so if you're making good decisions you get more governance power if you're like making bad decisions your governance power is been reduced and you won't have uh like a lot of uh say in what uh the do actually does you know so I think this is a very simple uh Improvement but it changes things considerably you know

16:38so you have to have some accountability for decision making and I think we can go from there and we can Implement more models uh more checks and balances and I believe that we can create something sustainable uh and something that can even be used not only online but also offline you know in some kind of like real world governance this is because SL and you have those

17:04models in the world now you know for example in Switzerland have direct democracy they vote directly for they don't like they don't like elect some kind of like deputies or Representatives they uh vote directly for uh legislation you know so they basically there're some kind of law that they can vote for and the whole population does that no I think it's going to that direction

17:30because people feel that there's a lot of problems with governance and I don't mean blockchain governance I mean like real world governance and uh the idea that we are developing in blockchain eventually hopefully will be used offline in the the real world governments yeah it would be uh it would be very interesting if the uh American politics were to switch to blockchain in

17:57the next uh quarter for this upcoming election but I feel like it might take a few few more terms before before that happens but I I have seen a lot of growth recently on on the Dow side and uh companies you know starting from scratch with a dow formation I feel like maybe it's easier if you're you know you're starting the company with a dow and then

18:17building up rather than having a billion dollar company and being like we're going to move everything into a dow and then trying to decentralize all of the functionality and take away um you know I I think telegram is a great example you know having uh the CEO uh arrested now if that was in a dow structure which I know they have some them blockchain

18:37components they were probably working on it but um if that was already perfectly set up in a dow uh it wouldn't matter if anybody on the on the team disappeared or or left the job yeah actually I think you can run any business as at doll if you if you actually think about that a bit more uh you will see a way to uh shape any business as a doll you know

19:02it changes the cash flows you know you have those cash flows not going uh from like from the bottom to the top they're like more horizontal you know so and this is very important change but actually if you are ready to give up on like decentralization because people want to control as much power the want they they can they want to control the fund they want to control everything and

19:27know huge companies like apple or like Google have billions of dollars in their bank which they don't even use you know for example I don't know uh how much money Apple has now in the bank but like a couple years ago they had like 100 billion dollars just staying there now like they're not using it they're just they just have it for maybe maybe they

19:50will use it in the future maybe they will need in the future now so nobody knows what's going to be like in several years so it's not efficient you know so and it's very centralized and if you take this like structure and make it more uh flat make it more like horizontal uh basically what really changes is the efficiency I think it can become even more efficient you won't

20:17have like billionaires in the structure probably you know you'll have like maybe a lot of millionaires but you won't have like uh e masks or I don't know BOS this of the world you know but I think it's fine if you ready to give up on that if you you can live without billionaires uh I think doll model is something that can make even um like mundane businesses not some kind of

20:43sophisticated D structur even like yeah retail and things like like offline business more efficient now because it just changes the governance model it changes the cash flows it changes like power structure and if you're okay with it if you don't want want to be like very famous CEO you know and control everything yeah actually this is a way to go yeah and no it's uh it's fascinating

21:10and um I'm I'm curious on how that implementation is going with with units Network um you know what's the stage of of the Dow uh and and the test net main net can people contribute and get involved yeah sure so basically uh development almost done uh only actually the doll is not uh on the test net yet it's going to be on the testet I think

21:36next week uh we just use what we have built uh uh for our new D protocol for units is there going to be some kind of fork which we will use for units so it's not going to take too much time uh and like in next week we will have uh the EOS system doll on the testnet uh in terms of like other things that needs to be de that need to be developed um we are done with

22:04development uh so we deployed uh interchain bridging uh last week so basically yes now we are preparing for the launch which uh is about to happen uh around mid September and now the focus is on the marketing uh maybe we are lagging behind uh in this uh uh Department somewhat but

22:33now we're finally starting KL campaign uh and it's not so easy now with kls because the market is very volatile and you know kls are not ready to move fast and it's like it's hard to uh start those campaigns but yeah I think we are uh actually starting now and I think we have some time so there's going to be a Launches on major uh centralized exchanges also we will launch on some

23:04launch pads and I'm not going to delay the launch uh maybe we could uh actually uh do some more marketing but I think we'll do it after we have launched you know because it's going to be very important to have several chains and several projects launching immediately after uh uh the first launch because the goal is to show that uh ecosystem is growing and uh we need to

23:34have more projects in it so the focus will be maybe not even on uh the first launch but on the subsequent launches so we will try to have projects from different narratives so so that there's going to be like an ani project launching its own AI chain some kind of like rwa project launching uh its own chain as well and so on and so forth so this is this is it yeah so maybe we're

24:03not make a very spectacular launch of the first chain but we'll try uh to compensate for that with the subsequent launches MH yeah well I know that uh waves has been through two or three uh full four-year Cycles uh in crypto and it's uh it can make a difference when you make a launch

24:29uh whether there's a lot of uh hype in in the Bitcoin and and the outside world I feel like 2024 has been a good year for new entrance into the market with institutions coming in um and with Bitcoin ETF and now ethereum although uh right after the launch of ethereum we're not seeing you know a huge appreciation in the price but I feel like there's a

24:51lot of accumulation and long-term thinking similar to you know how uh waves has been around for for many many years um H what is your level of of optimism or pessimism on the market moving into the next quarter in the next year do you think the all these new entrance will translate into a hotter Market than than ever seen before uh it's hard to say I I won't

25:19make any predictions now you know because I think you know so the we have to wait a little we have to uh see how it goes uh I think uh until uh the elections in the US we won't have any kind of clear picture here you know also in terms of like uh crypto markets and financial markets in general so somehow like a lot of crypto people uh think

25:48that Trump presidency is going to be good for crypto I don't know I think it's a fake narrative actually but let's see how it goes I don't I don't think uh uh how I don't I don't understand how how it can be beneficial for crypto maybe shortterm you know so because people try to manipulate the markets convincing people that Trump presidency is going to be

26:11good I don't know how it's going to work out let's see how it go so it's it's a very volatile time and I think it's better uh stay uh maybe at the sidelines for a while and just observe what's what's what's going to happen you know so and then when we see some kind of clear picture we can uh make some predictions projections and we can plan

26:38you know so now I just I wouldn't like care too much about the markets now because uh I think what we want to do now we just want to launch what we wanted to launch and uh not be distracted by the current market conditions because as I mentioned like for examp examp KS you know they are waiting for some kind of like good moment to start doing marketing not I'm

27:06mean not for units but for like we work with some marketing companies and they're just waiting for a good moment but that moment may not come at all you know so you know so yeah I think you you should try to become more independent and try to push your own thing more and of course people want to use those like bull runs uh to their advantage but I think uh they won't come again those bu

27:32runs you know so at least uh uh those uh bull runs uh that we had before you know because the market has become too fragmented now we have too many tokens and it's impossible to pump all those tokens you know so it's going to be more like in traditional stock market where we have some sectors which are uh pumping you know so maybe we'll have some AI narrative which is going to be

28:01big but all other narratives won't be so big and those tokens will not perform that well so crypto has become very big too many tokens and to expect some kind of like old season I think is is a bit naive now yeah yeah it's a great perspective I think um the best thing for companies and and and developers that are building is just keep your head down building um

28:30to to build a great product and uh and not try to you know time something um and so I'm excited to see the the upcoming launch for the mid-september launch that you mentioned um already been following along since uh um earlier this year and um is there any other way that people can get involved prior to the main net launch like uh incentivized test net or just contributing

28:56somehow sure sure guys we still run uh tested campaign uh and you can earn some points by helping us uh test uh the network and those points will be converted into unit zero token once it's launched so around in September uh we are going to have more tests uh in our questing platform uh this week I think so I think it's not

29:26too late to start participating and earning some un zero tokens and un zero is the token of the first chain in the ecosystem to be launched in mid September and un zero token is going to be like the most important token in the system because it's also uh going to serve as uh the governance token of the Hol system and the idea here is if you have unit zero you can vote for new

29:53launches and for new projects and those projects can basically incentivize uh the process basically they can distribute some tokens to the doll members to the validators and it mean that if you have unit zero token you will eventually get more uh tokens in the ecosystem so it creates some kind of like chain of incentives so yes it's we also run uh ATV campaign but only uh for Wes token

30:25maybe we will do also stable coins but I'm not so sure that it's a good moment to do that so maybe we will even do without so if you have waves or maybe you're waves you can stake some Wes in h corresponding smart contract and also earn some unzero to uh yes and also we have Z campaigns so if you just don't want to bother with any kind of

30:52like uh tokens or any kind of like uh finan bur so to say you can just do some retweets you know and earn some zero tokens so yeah in this regard we're not we're not being very Innovative because I think we have seen several projects doing very efficient uh retr campaigns maybe uh this Market is a bit B right now so I don't see any big ROP campaigns

31:23happening right now but I think this uh model is good because the idea here is you don't risk your own funds you don't need to invest you just need to test uh the network or just take some token that you can take back later so there is no Financial Risk here and basically help the project and the project just rewards you with some tokens and there's no obligation I think

31:51it's a great model and I don't like everything that they see in crypto in terms of marketing but this is approach is good because it's riskless and it helps the projects and Al it also helps the users because you don't have any risk but you can earn some tokens basically just by helping the project test their product which is awesome sounds great well I'm looking

32:19forward to uh to the launch and I can leave a link to the uh to the testet campaigns the the marketing um however else people can get involved I'll leave uh a bunch of links in the show notes below um I'm excited to see the growth of the Dow and the main net launch and I know that this is you know it's not the grand finale it's just the beginning of

32:43all of the chains that will launch on it so I'm looking forward to seeing how it all plays out and I appreciate all your insights into uh to waves layer tws Dows and proper governance structure on how blockchain and decentralized governance will will hopefully change the face of all companies in the world um so thank you so much for taking the time Sasha thank you Ash for having me always

33:07a pleasure