Alex McDougall discusses Open Application Network on Aion

0:00i'm ashlyn addison from event chain for investmentpitch media and FinTech news network and today on blockchain interviews with alex mcdougal the chief investment officer of bicameral ventures Alex thanks so much for coming it's great to see you again and it's great to have you on the show again as well absolutely thanks very much happy to be here really enjoyed the interview last

0:20time great running you're new in Vegas as well and I get to be back likewise and there's lots of new updates that you have from bicameral ventures and your investments in the Aon Network I know you just wrote a few interesting blogs which got on some decent publications which I read I'm interested in diving into a little bit about the Aon networks Oh a n open application Network I

0:43believe it is can you talk about the the problem at hand and how this Oh a n is now solving the the sovereignty of of people's data sure and I think it's even a little bit bigger and broader than the sovereignty of data which but data sovereignty is only something that we're very passionate about and something that's a major hot-button issue for for

1:04a lot of people right now a lot of media outlets right now and a lot of platforms right now I mean the big thesis of the open application network is that generally we everything that we that we do right now is run by some sort of platform whether it's Facebook or Google or Amazon or even cities voting voting parameters voting platforms everything that we're doing is essentially governed

1:31by some sort of set of rules some sort of set of platforms and as we've gotten farther and farther into the digital age we've started to see a certain set of problems arise around a lot of the closed loop platforms that we that we see and that we deal with today a lot of which has to do with different incentive systems for different stakeholders within those platforms whether it's the

1:52ownership of the platform usually the equity holders of the platform who are incented on a tangible nature object with shareholders and short-term earnings reports or the users of the platforms who are incentive by getting likes and clicks and getting more intangible value out of it but we really see it a big bifurcation and what people are trying to get out of platforms and

2:14started to see a lot of problems arise in how platforms are being monetized mediated which really we've never been more mediated and in our entire lives as a species than we are today so where I think the the open application network is looking to move towards is this idea of open transparency all types of value shared between the various stakeholders in the

2:39various stakeholder groups within a network and this then essentially turned it into a real marketplace of ideas a marketplace of participation a complete value share so everybody sees the full the full value chain of a platform and a way to actually compete based on merits rather than based on blocking in which is how a lot of our platforms work today

3:01so there's a lot of Technology angles to it there's a lot of mindset angles to it there's a lot of consumer behavior angles to it but overall the open application network is an attempt to leverage a blockchain platform and create a new narrative about what we're actually trying to do with this technology that's not just decentralisation web 3 new internet and

3:22different types of consensus the sort of words that we use today it's an attempt to really bring it into the mainstream of here's a value proposition that's visceral to what people are actually using technology for well that's super interesting and you're right that the topic of this data topic has been I feel in the last two years it's been more important than ever as everybody seems

3:41to be glued to you know that these top five or so social media and web sites that that see more data than you know than anybody else in the whole world and it's a matter of who's who's owning that data and who can you know use that data to provide value for others but at the same time understanding that you know when people have personal information you know it should sort of

4:03be theirs and theirs to use or to monetize so and we're seeing this paradigm shift as these open networks come about and you know why do you think there isn't is there any incentive for these really big companies that are already profiting off other people's data to jump onto this train yeah and and so there definitely is but I think it's going to come

4:27actually in the form of the number four and five and six platforms and in an areas using this as a way to compete and using this as a way to take down incumbents or a way to challenge incumbents I unfortunately am probably cynical on this but actually I have very little faith in the incumbents to really make meaningful change and a lot of that is just driven by a short-term quarterly

4:50earnings cycle there's a shareholder value maximization mandate that all of these companies have and this I'm very happy to talk about why open applications I think are going to be exponentially more valuable in the long run but in the short run you're absolutely right you're essentially breaking down your moat you're opening yourself up to competition and you're

5:10sharing more real tangible value that could accrue back to your shareholders with your actual users now in the long run I think those are going to be the types of platforms that end up gaining those mass Network effects because for that exact reason that your users are both getting the intangible value of a platform of the likes and the shares and all that plus some kind of actual value

5:30reward and you you mentioned before about the data self sovereignty side and I think that's a super key part of it and probably one of the most tangible outcomes of what we can try and do with with open applications with open platforms I think some of the data self sovereignty narrative is I don't never once they overly focused on privacy but I think some people think that we'd be

5:53better off in a world where everybody just had and hold and controlled their own data but really we thrive on connectivity if we thrive on tailored experiences thrive on customization that's one of the main things that we that we've learned over this connective evolution of the internet so it's really finding that balance between sharing collaborating privacy in ways that you

6:17can generate the flow in this economy itself without just blindly going through your platform and just having all of your data just explode into the atmosphere where other people can work on it so it's um it is a longer-term game to be willing to play this open application side you really need to be confident in your attack and confident in your platform to be able and

6:41to do it and you it but it's it's something that will the people who are willing to do it that the people who actually make this make this transition are going to be the winners in this long run i thing looks like a flip sideways there Alex it's bogus there perfect so you know when you mention the top four five and six platforms what comes to

7:09mind for myself is a blockchain based platform that's actually gaining a lot of traction is the brave brave browser they seem to be quite focused on sovereignty I read that they've recently surpassed 40 million users or so forty million downloads which is pretty big for the blockchain space but another thing you know I've been an advocate of this kind

7:29of these kind of open networks and and having more control for yourself but a lot of people just don't seem to care you know or like it takes a lot of extra effort if it takes an extra step it seems that you know the fact that all these services are free and it's convenient like you're giving up your convenient and convenience so that people can use your data you know what's

7:47it going to take for people to change their minds on that and actually I don't know what if it takes an extra step to to become sovereign right you're you're speaking my language my friends that's exactly one of the biggest problems with with blockchain today is that it's the user interface is clunky and terrible quite frankly you're going to get the

8:10bleeding edge or the leading edge of consumers who are really focused really care really are valuing privacy but in order to actually solve the problems that we have bicameral are trying to solve you need a billion people on this technology two billion three billion people and with that you're going to not be able to get them by saying like oh it's decentralize or oh you can have

8:30your data or any of that stuff you're going to need to provide them with viscerally better value options that they understand and so I mean the easiest and simplest way is what if Facebook gave you a ten percent of the data revenues that they're earning and that flowed back to you and Facebook Credits or in Libra coins or in however they actually however that value share

8:51actually works and what if you know at the same time you have extra tab in your Facebook that just shows your data profile here's all the things that we think you like here's all the people who are trying to connect with you here's all the offers that you can directly get if you buy something through this we take a cut of it and just make it a immersive value

9:10proposition where we're actually in the flow of data but with the UX that's built on top of it that just makes it fun it can make it gamified but most importantly is that real value comes back to you out of it so we're working with a project out of Miami that I think I spoke about last time on the show that's one of the pioneers at the open application network something called

9:31Filosa that's actually doing a launch with the mayor of Miami tomorrow and one of the things that that's really cool about the way they're treating data is is there a platform that allows you to connect your uber your left your old scooter your Miami Metro your Apple health and all the different ways you get around the city and helps you sort of build this 360 degree mobility

9:53profile view of yourself and turns it into with all these things you've done you've taken three tons of carbon out of the air you've taken six cars off the road your community and all the people around you and aggregate have done all of these things so it helps you sort of in a tangible way of getting rewarded for doing certain mobility behaviors that

10:13people can incentivize but also gamma Phi's it and you see goals and you see things that you're working towards them really helps you understand your data profile and then that's what you can actually go out to the data market and say great if there's an insurance company that wants to market to me or if there's an OEM that wants to buy this entire package of data to understand

10:33better they an autonomous vehicle that how to get around the city those are the types of data that's extremely valuable but you need to help consumers realize that value help incent them to do what makes their profile more valuable and then definitely definitely definitely share that value back with them in a way that's easy for them to using and intangible to them mm-hmm that's great

10:55that Aon is focused on transportation I know in terms of data points and understanding information about people the transportation industry is like probably that number one intern of quantity of data so that's really interesting that that you're doing that with Filosa and you know uber and lyft have gotten to be such big companies so quickly I know it's seems much faster than than

11:20these social media companies that they've just sort of come from nowhere to to have so much data you know is this something that these companies could could jump on to the open network and utilize that or is it you know that ve'lo SIA is acting as a competitor to them and they shouldn't jump on it you know how does that work with these huge transportation companies that are

11:37already giant yeah and so a great point and I think it's it's again putting it in terms of what value that they can generate within the context they understand already and so I mean went when specifically you're thinking about uber or lyft in general it's probably not in their best short-term interest to open up their API and open up their their data flows and open up their their

12:00platform but when you can put it in terms of hey here's a million users that we have an extremely high quality of data flip over you can see where they're all going where they're getting off subways where they're getting off scooters and we're to better position your cars and you can mark it and via a smart contract directly incentivize those users to use your service at the

12:24highest leverage point so that their highest willingness to pay that has a ton of value to those types of platforms right now you know they obviously have analytics but they don't have an insight site on how the Miami metro system is working they don't have an insight site over where all the scooters are going and how people are walking now they partner for

12:43some of that data but there's no direct way to connect and access those different types of users with a platform like Pelosi a–that's very open and has a wide variety of different mobility service providers on it and can have any different mobility service provider join it because of how its open you get this much richer more contextual type of clients that you can directly market to

13:07and provably add to your platform if you want to you can you can mark it with smart contracts that pay somebody tokens for downloading registering your your your or your lift app or whichever app that actually adds to this platform so it's sort of a combination of if you look at it as what we used to pay three dollars for a consumer and then on this platform

13:28we can pay a dollar for a better consumer all of the other ethereal intangible great warm fuzzy hugs feelings aside this is great for their bottom line because it's getting them better things that churn through their regular platform and I think that that's how this is concept is going to eat the world is slowly it tuning to people's existing value propositions and then

13:52just eating away at the the walls and the gardens that that really sort of hold people within a certain framework in the short-term mm-hmm and with networks like the open application network and Aon network you know it must be easy or to get these companies to you know just use an API or not really have too much hard core development to and have a huge you know border of

14:17integration so they can actually jump on these things that seems to be in the blockchain industry so far you know like theoria manio seem to have very developer friendly platforms to allow applications to be built so that people can actually use them is that something that that a on and open network have focused on as well or yeah and and so even before the open application network

14:40and I'd say I mean aetherium has done fantastic work they've built a lot of the tools first especially consensus has done good work and building a lot of the developer friendly tools but all of those platforms and and I mean even a on to a certain extent before this this transition are really competing for a very small piece of the developer pie it's its existing people who know

15:04blockchain there's almost no outreach to existing traditional developers and especially not where I think is absolutely critical vertical focus developers I mean if you want to build a mobility or a smart city app you're not going to be a blockchain first person builds done you need to build that bridge to somebody who's a great smart city app developer and give

15:24them the tools to be able to leverage the best parts of blockchain to create an even better smart city app that you can't build on regular technology so it will I be gay on sort of started this transition before when we moved into a job of a virtual machines you could you could actually have developers who have been coding Java for years and years and years on

15:44the most common languages in the world to be able to plug in directly and they've taken it even a step further with OE and developing API is developing a bunch of software development kits developing these kind of open economy immediate tool sets that are like seven click deploy and you can have a token you can have your app you can have your economy set up and you can start

16:04actually building these tools very very very simply and even more importantly you can start plugging them into existing networks using these the using what is available on the outside of closed networks or at the user level and start building little tools that pull the drivers reputation home uber and allow them to use it on left and things like that that just start opening all of

16:28these ecosystems up and again it's it's starting at zero and evolving towards this 100% magical decentralized future that we all sort of look towards that's super exciting Alex we're running out of time but if there are people that are interested in learning more or trying to get involved what is the best way for them to reach out and to find out more

16:48yeah absolutely so you can follow us on twitter at bicameral Ben and you can also learn more about the open application network at do a ENCOM I believe our just Google open application network there's some really really good intro blog posts that have laid down a lot of these platform problems where the gaps are how this stuff is being solved and dig into the dig into the github dig

17:12into the repos get a look at these that these api's get a look at these little modules they're super cool they're a much different take on blockchain they're designed to be used and interacted with by people who are vertical developers and not necessarily deep in the blockchain space you know I think it's it's relatively common knowledge or relatively well

17:32accepted that lattes gonna be a huge portion of the future but we need to start from zero and we need to start onboarding people and to solve a bunch of the problems that we want as I said it needs to be a billion two billion three billion people it starts here but it ends everywhere that's great Alex oh thank you so much for the time is great to see you again

17:52and I'm looking forward to following up in the near future as the Oh Ann gross absolutely thanks very much appreciate it