Why AI optimization matters for crypto companies in 2025

0:01I'm Ashton Addison from the Cryptocoin Show and today on Blockchain Interviews, we have Vlad Pivv, CEO of IICOD here to talk about a variety of topics including AI, DeFi, crypto exchanges, DEX's news, PR, and much more. Vlad, welcome to the show and thanks for taking the time. >> Thank you for joining me. >> Yeah, there's a lot

0:28>> Thank you. There's a lot of uh there's a lot of factors going on for crypto companies and how can they can be successful especially with the incorporation of AI into blockchain finding that balance between uh incorporating it to add value and just for speculation. Uh I know you've been deep in it for a few years. I would love to start off with just a little bit of

0:49background on yourself in crypto and what you've and the team have built at ICOTA and then we can all those topics. >> Yeah, sure. Thank you. Thank you Ashton. So we are IOD. We are web3 marketing agency and since 2017 we help crypto companies to grow to attract users, raise capital, scale globally and many other stuff. So uh for now I would say

1:19that we held more than 300 different crypto projects to be successfully executed and uh uh if you're talking about names it could be I don't know Telegram tone it could be FY kicks by beat and many others you know >> so that's why we I would say that we are behind the sense in terms of the what's happened in crypto projects in terms of

1:50acquisition in terms of marketing. So that's why I believe that today's um video interview so we could uh we can show the details on how any crypto project can do some marketing tricks uh marketing strategies and I believe that it will be helpful for uh seale managers for crypto founders for marketers yeah

2:21>> yeah I'm excited to hear the ins side uh part of all these crypto companies, you know, they're all looking for getting attention because there's a lot of noise uh in the hundreds of thousands of crypto companies now and a lot of them have a lot of value, but a lot of people don't hear about it because they don't know what they're doing with marketing.

2:41Um, and I know that, you know, working with a lot of PR companies over the years, there's a lot of different narratives that come through and companies try to pivot to stay on to what's hot and also what's the latest technology and what can add value to the company. And I want to start off by talking about AI and the incorporation of AI with blockchain

3:04because I feel like AI is much bigger than blockchain and crypto altogether and has a lot of value. Uh, but a lot of that value is sort of untapped so far and as AI grows, it will become more obvious. But I think blockchain companies are starting to realize that AI can add value. They just have to figure out how to. So maybe we could start with, you know, have you spoken to

3:27blockchain companies that are looking to incorporate AI or have incorporated AI and where do they find that balance between just incorporating it for the sake of saying that we have AI and actually having an added value into the company. >> Great. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So, but let me show it from the marketing point of view. So I definitely know that there

3:51are not a lot but maybe I don't know dozens of crypto projects who which try to implement AI in their blockchain products. But let's look at it uh from the marketing point point of view and you know like uh if he uh come back to summer 2024 so and if he open starts from different crypto projects defy protocols uh

4:22centralized exchanges different crypto companies it doesn't matter and if you see the stats from different sources from paid traffic, see search engine optimization, from Twitter and so on. >> Mhm. >> So we would see that uh any AI source of traffic has zero. So it was like one year ago. >> Mhm. So now if we open the same projects

4:51the same stats uh we see uh traffic from Chad GPT from GMini from Perplexity and others and it varies it depends on the project but I would say that the bulk pork figures from 2% up to 10%. This is what we already have >> and it just one year passed. >> Mhm. And the good point is that the traffic from these sources they have higher

5:22conversions than average >> usually two or three times more. It means if a user um wants to find I don't know a crypto exchange in let's say in Poland. So and Chad DPT answered okay please use this exchange. it mean that the conversion rate that so the likely he register deposit money and everything will be

5:49okay. >> So you know like we've uh we've done a research regarding AI and centralized exchanges in how do they present it in AI? Uh we've got like 25 exchanges. We made like more than 1,000 requests to different AI protocols to look to look >> which of the exchanges are better, which are not and so on. And

6:17um the result of this ex the result of this analysis is that the difference between tier one exchanges like Coinbase, Binance and Tier 2 exchanges are not so big as we thought. I'm talking only about Chad DPT Jini and different LLMs. So we uh by the way by the way in our analysis we used

6:47eight different LLMs. >> So it means that for now for many different crypto projects centralized exchange defy protocols. So the it's a chance to to get the I would say a share of the market and uh to yeah to to get additional I don't know users and attract it. So, and you know

7:17like two weeks ago I had a talk with my friend and they have their uh auditing company and they are I would say they're pretty known in the crypto but at the same time if you ask any AI please advise me an auditing company. >> Mh. >> So there were any answers with their name. So

7:45>> and I believe that >> um in one year in 3 years if you are not in AI >> so you not exist for digital at all you know. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. That's actually super important to understand because AI and the LLM it's the new Google ranking. You know, for for decades it was like, how can we get

8:12our company to be on the top search result on Google, but now it's it's really people are shifting to Googling through the LLMs and getting getting your company at the top result of that when they ask for best crypto exchange or best this type of company is important. So maybe you could touch on that a little bit more. Obviously, it sounds like, you know, the companies

8:39would work with IICOTA to get the ranking up, but what's the the tricks and and the and the rhyme behind getting your company higher on the on the results list through the LLMs? >> Yeah, sure. I I can share like our our research and our results of different kind of researchers and to be

9:06honest like uh we do R&D more than two years because it's clear that everybody wants to be in the top of the LLMs. >> Mhm. So, and I would say that the basement for is for it is um um search engine optimization, but it's a little bit different before you if you're talking about promoting your website in Google. So, you need to do u

9:35some technical stuff on your website that Google can uh index it properly. So, then you need to buy some external links, articles and so on. If you are talking about AI, it's more complicated. The firstly, you have to do uh search engine optimization. The second one you have to analyze all sources which um LLM provides for the answers because if you type any request in LLM usually

10:06clot chin they provide also links >> to the sources where this LLM's uh got this information. So you you you should think how to be in these resources as well. >> Mhm. >> And um most it could be media, it could be I don't know forums and other stuff. So and you should think how to be in

10:34these sources. And the next point is um uh and I was wondering that AI systems and LLM they pay attention uh to uh to to your reviews. So if you provide any service and you have a lot of negative in in the internet. So uh what we got

11:07that LLM tries to avoid your company >> so they don't so it mean they they so LLM try to find you the best solution not only not only based on the links in the internet but also analyze some reviews and some of them try to warn you please don't do it so you should understand the risk >> etc you

11:33So that's why I would say in a simple terms it's search engine optimization but more complicated than usual one. The next the next uh part is um uh your reputation in digital at all and also uh the last part is social indicators like your social media and other stuff. So you need to make you know like before you could make only I

12:03don't know only Twitter promotion and that's enough okay for crypto projects for some of the crypto projects but if you wanted to be in LLM so you have to to do more complicated marketing >> very interesting and I actually saw this new term it's like GEO instead of SEO so generative engine optimization is this what you're talking about with getting into the AI getting up in the AI's

12:32algorithm and uh is that something that's moving forward GEO is going to be the new SEO? >> I believe so. uh and you know uh a lot of people thought that with AI people will we lose their job and it's true to be honest you know like copyriters designers developers and so on it's true

13:00but what I see now that uh LLM is not a tool which u where you can lost your job but it's a tool where you can buy. So it means if I want to buy I don't know any stuff it doesn't matter. I wanted to buy a coffee machine. I want to buy a new shoes flight ticket I can go to the LLM and ask to do it. And it seems that um for crypto it will be the same. If I

13:31want something uh in crypto I can go to LLM and ask to do it. Okay. If I want to find the best defy yel platform to farm USDC, so I can ask LLM where the best sources to do it. If I want to create an account on der derivative exchange, so of futures exchange, so I can go to LLM and ask.

14:00So, and I would say that from this point of view, the LLM is a place where you can use different crypto solutions um and choose crypto solutions. And by the way, you know, like when we talking about losing the job, I thought that I would say that Ashton, you are in a good position because I thought that people also will stop to watch. It was my idea

14:29that people will stop to watch uh YouTube because okay if you want I mean in terms of the education >> so because okay if if I want to know something I can go in LM to just type in my question and to get the answer but you know I was wrong because um any researchers which I uh saw so they show that people not uh

14:58that people not even um watch video on YouTube less they watch more because and this in this case that educational video on YouTube it's an addition option to look in the details you can see the picture you can provide you can see faces and so on so that's why I think that in in this terms you know like

15:26Ashton you're in a good position. >> That's nice to know. And honestly, I I'll be honest. I I if there are videos that are 2 3 hours long, I often throw that into the AI and I say, you know, get me some of the key points, even if you have watched the video to sort of remember everything concisely. Um, and sometimes it doesn't work, but you have to copy the transcript. But often you

15:50can get um hard facts from the video by putting it into the LLM as well. But of course it's nice to actually see and hear the people talking and get a combination of both. So it's it's nice to hear. And speaking of like taking the jobs, um, and we haven't talked about AI agents, but what do you think about blockchain companies exploring AI agents to maybe not replace the jobs on the

16:18social team, but to support it and maybe eventually replace it? Where do you think the social side is at with that? Um, so I can I see that people really start to use any AI tools to optimize their processes and I think that you know it as well. So it's um it's not new and uh uh I would say that for any person there are two options. the first

16:48one to to be up to date with any AI solutions you can use and be more productive than before or the second one not to die but maybe to lose a job or do nothing. So and I see it from from any crypto projects which has a proper financial cash flow financial plan. So like a usual business you try to optimize the process and you know like I

17:17think it's everywhere and even in your job to um to do a video interviews to to >> um to have a YouTube channel. So if you understand that you can optimize any step any process and it will be easier and cheaper than before why not. >> Mhm. Definitely. And you mentioned uh searching for DeFi projects. There's a lot of DeFi projects in the space. I

17:46feel like it's one of the number one categories that should grow uh of types of crypto projects that are, you know, tokenizing the financial industry or democratizing lowering barriers to entry for financial inclusion. Uh I'm I'm guessing that IOTA has worked with DeFi platforms over the years. Can you talk about a DeFi platforms, where they're at, how they look at marketing, and how

18:13can we grow the TVL, the value locked in DeFi beyond, you know, the the 2021 levels and get a larger percentage of people in crypto into DeFi and also get new people into DeFi. >> Yeah, definitely. So um you know like uh it's definitely depends on the project and what's behind it. But if you are if it's a pretty secure protocol and you

18:42can provide generous rewards for new users. So it's not a difficult challenge to invite a new users to your protocol. I would say that the main challenge to to increase the LTV lifetime value of users for your defy protocol that they use it uh for years. >> So that's why there are like different mechanics and so on. But in terms of the

19:09marketing there are like already known source of traffic uh from I don't know search engine optimization from different PR activities, Twitter campaign influencers and many others. So and you know like here I could share with you some it maybe it will be helpful for for the um um listeners for people who who watch this video. So in terms of of the attracting um web two

19:38users and recently you know like this year we've got I don't know maybe more than 10 different requests from defi and text uh projects uh which are looking not for web three users they're looking for web two users because web 3 is limited it seems so uh but web two is much much bigger and um a

20:07lot of projects are looking for web two to grow and uh here we've also here we also have some case studies and uh understanding how to do it. So and um we even um we even made um so let me share one example. Okay. So we work with a defi projects with which uh had a algorithmic stable coin. So, and um the

20:40initial offer was like 16% API on your stable coins and it's pretty it was a couple of years ago but it was like a pretty high percentage and uh we've got like web three users but we also decided to dive into the details how to attract web two users and firstly it was um it failed. Then we decided to made a customer development

21:10to understand what should we do, why people don't join it. And uh when we when we provided a customer development, we realized that web to users thought that it's too good to be true be true. >> Yeah. >> 16% API and so on. So the next pain point was okay I can deposit but how can I withdraw money?

21:40>> So can I withdraw at any time or like in bank I don't know if you deposit you can withdraw you know in one month and one year. >> Mhm. >> So the next pain the next question was if it's real why banks don't provide the same solution like 16% API. So that's why we've realized that we need to explain like every step every step on all things and after after this

22:12explanation for users so we started to uh to attract like web to audience. So and the second case it was a little bit uh different um uh it was it was not defy but it was safy but the point the idea was that you know like um now there are different countries with a high inflation rate and um let's let's say I don't know

22:42Venezuela >> Mhm. Turkey, Argentina for example. For now in Argentina there are like two different uh currency rates >> for USD like on a regular market and on a black market. >> Yeah. >> So and if you can if you can come to this markets and say okay you are web two users we clearly understand it. So but on our exchange you can save your

23:10money. So let's do it. So this is the second example how you can you know like second case how can you use web to audience >> um for your projects. Yeah. >> Mhm. Yeah. It's really interesting because you could have a great offer but you know that 16% is very high. And I actually had the same thought when back when Celsius and these uh yield

23:40platforms were getting really popular. Some of the yields were like 10%. That was sort of becoming the standard was 10%. And I remember the Luna stable coin was 20%. And I thought this is sounds too good to be true. I'm going to stay away. And I was right on that. So thankfully I didn't I didn't invest to the 20%. But I have a I feel like right now uh you know banks they have they're

24:07being forced to raise their yields but people think of banks as like decimals of a percent and crypto you know four to 5% seems reasonable. I feel like we could attract a lot of web 2 companies or web 2 users being like understanding okay 4 to 5% is not outrageous. It's not doesn't sound like a scam. Uh, I feel like we could bring more people into DeFi that aren't even in crypto just

24:32with so many of them that just have money sitting in the bank that's probably not even earning a percent and also is under inflation as well. >> Yeah, that's true. So, what other ways can I I think this is really important to be able to get more web 2 people into crypto because there's a lot of people that have seen Bitcoin and they understand they start to

24:59understand about it and they're starting to invest, but there's such a huge percentage of people that they don't want to get involved with Bitcoin. they like fiat or stable coins as we get into more digital dollars, but the yield is um I think is something that could really convert a lot of people that don't want to invest in crypto, but they understand that the money in their bank

25:23is not giving them enough. And if they can get a few percentage, that'll get them into the door that gets them into the rabbit hole into all of all of crypto and digital assets. So what other ways uh can uh companies do marketing to try and get web two users in? >> Um so you know like uh to sum up what should you do and it may be some key

25:50insights after um our marketing campaigns. So the first one is uh you should communicate differently and your UIX also should be different. Uh let me share here you one more example. one of one of our clients it's um crypto exchange website where you can change I don't know BTC for USDT and others

26:18>> but but their main segment of users are people uh above 50 years or something like this I would say that it's most of them are retired or something like this >> and one of the channel of communication is a phone >> so they and talk with people with some of them I don't know maybe grandma grandpa you know like and you talk with

26:46them to explain like every step like like before it seems that you you are back I don't know maybe in 1990 or something like this but it's it feels like uh you're just too old but it's a comfortable way for them to invest crypto because they also have like money they want to invest They wanted to consider different options and they want they want to find a company they can

27:14believe. So that's the point and it was an example of how you can target on different audience and how you can handle with it and how can you work with them. So um so that's that's what it was the first insight. The second one that the high yield it's um difficult to explain for users and you mentioned and I agree

27:41with you today if you come and say okay I have 16% on stable coins it sounds like a scam so you have to explain in details where you get this percentage uh and other stuff so Um and I would say that if you target on um you have to understand that

28:09macroeconomics of different countries because in some cases it's really good option you know like uh in countries where people try to save their money so they can consider any options to to invest >> for sure. And speaking of exchanges, there's a lot of smaller exchanges that many people haven't heard of that are

28:36just perfectly good, trustworthy companies, but it's hard to compete with Coinbase and Binance and these big ones that have billions in revenue and millions of customers. with some of the crypto exchanges that that you've worked with for marketing. What are the ways that smaller crypto exchanges can turn into one of those big exchanges? So, you know, like it's a good question

29:04to be honest. Like we um every months we receive I don't know maybe three five requests from new crypto exchanges which want to to concur the market to compete with exchanges and some of them have um some of them have budgets and um team to do it. >> Mhm. And you know like

29:32let's uh dive in 2020. So um if you look at 2020 like X exchange has almost 0% of the market share. >> Uh Gio has less than 1% Crypto.com had almost zero. But now it's a well-known big exchanges and it's five years.

29:58>> Yeah. from my point of view for such a big business it's not a it's not so long so that's why the first point it seems that even now in the current market it's possible and you know like when I was in um in Dubai token 2049 so I've seen maybe more than three new exchanges which were launched like one

30:26year maybe one year one year and a up and they already in some of them are already in top 50 coin market cap in the list. So that's why it's definitely possible. So but in a nutshell so uh and usually what we do firstly we need to understand the final goal what should it be uh it could be a trading volume it could be amount

30:55of users um it could it could be revenue from the users from the trading and other stuff. So the first point to define the goals. The next point is to um to divide this goal into the small goals and small tasks. What should we do? For example, uh let me let me share like one of the real request. So

31:25and you exchange they want to to get a $20 million per day in one year. >> So and we just divided. Okay. uh $20 million uh per day, it seems that you have to have like um 20,000 active traders. So, and 20,000 active traders, it should be like more than uh 50,000 traders and 50,000 traders, it should be like 200

31:55uh,000 registration signups. So, you know, and when you divide into the details, then you start. So the next point is to understand the market and where where do you want to compete? >> Mhm. >> So it's clear that different local markets, different licenses, different different situation in this market and so on.

32:21uh of course to pro to make a competitor's analysis uh customer development and to honestly to answer yourself why people will come to your exchange and not to others. >> Mhm. So and then you start with um um early adopter program to honestly to like honestly to explain uh community okay we are new we have

32:49marketing budget okay be the first uh person who trade on the exchange and we we will reward you. M >> so and then uh you know like I would say that our it seems that our strong site in the agency is a performance site. It means that we like to drive traffic. We like to uh analyze everything to um to this to understand this the cost of a

33:20uh of a user we uh attract of the sign up of the KYC of a deposit and other steps. Mhm. >> So, and that's and then you also provide some the um some different trading competitions referral program. Um then if if you already have I don't know 20,000 active traders, you can um move

33:49to some institutional department where you work with institutional clients and so on. So that's why it's but you know like it's it's easy to talk about it but when you start to integrate it and work with it it's uh I would say it's a challenge because so if you an exchange and if you come to simply come to influencers most of them are already

34:19booked you know. >> Yeah. So and uh here we need to be honest with ourself. So why uh new traders should come to us? What should we provide for them? Why they choose us? What what can we offer for influencers and other stuff you know? >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Yeah. has a lot to think about and

34:46I've seen many small exchanges try and fail uh because there's the amount of people trading in web 3 is small and it's hard to when you're already set on a certain exchange uh to it's like switching banks you know the customer acquisition is so the cost is very high once people have a bank they they're there for for life almost uh unless something happens And um speaking

35:15of something happening, I'm curious on sort of the negative news or bad PR and as a PR company, you know, there's been definitely a few events over uh over the years, whether it's a a crypto exchange hack or something with founders going on, whether they're just stepping down or maybe they're going to prison um and other negative news in the industry. Um

35:42I'm curious on you know how you guys have dealt with that if you've worked with companies that have had negative news. Do you mitigate it or is any news good news? You know what are your thoughts on that? Uh so you know I believe that for any crypto projects that reputation is maybe one of the most important thing uh because uh if any user

36:12wants to deposit money so the first the first step is to analyze the company the project reviews >> and so on. So and you know like if if you have a client and the client is angry so they will definitely go to reviews platforms and leave negative review. If the client is happy usually uh so the client uh does nothing because

36:41it's okay you provide the service and so on. So that's why if I talking about reputation, the first point I believe that it's really really really important thing for many crypto companies because you uh you work with money. >> So and uh in finance uh field it's it seems that it's important. So, so uh how to handle with it you know like in um in

37:10our agency we have a department who is responsible for it and there are different options on different stages what you can do. The first um for example, one of the most important thing is to uh to start to uh to measure your NPS in marketing. It's called like net promoter score. >> What is the percentage of clients who are happy with your product with your

37:41service? >> Mhm. I know that maybe small amount of crypto companies um does it but anyway so to understand is it good or like what is your current status >> and at the same time on our side we could track um um a reputation in here and now to analyze okay how many

38:09negative or positive or natural messages messages you have in in the internet, in social media and so on. And then like you start to handle visit and there are different like options how to how to do it from the product from the project sites as well and from our side. We definitely use some PR um PR sources to to handle this negative. Uh sometimes we

38:40could uh sometimes we could connect a legal department to help us to talk. We have a you know like uh we also have a direct connection even with Trustpilot and sometimes they can help us with the stuff but it depends uh on the case and you know like right now I I would say I'm watching a case with Mixie exchange when they uh try to um I would say it seems that they try to

39:14freeze uh different accounts >> with uh big rewards. So if a user okay let me show you an example a user just deposited 100k. So the user started to trade and won like 9 millions and when so and um on a futures trading with leverages but before to be honest like this user lost a lot.

39:41>> Uhhuh. >> Just to be sure and now the account is freezed and uh he couldn't do nothing. And uh I see that a lot a lot of people are in the same um in the same situation >> and um you know like before our call I just decided to check the trust pilot account of Mixia and it's 1.6. >> I have never seen lower before. Uh-huh.

40:10>> So, but anyway, so and uh you know like in this case you couldn't um you couldn't solve this problem only with marketing >> with some reputation management services and so on. you need to do something on the project sides you know like >> so yeah in a simple terms uh but there are some um um ways how you can handle with it and uh I know that like if you

40:41have a good reputation you have a better performance on any other source of marketing you do >> you know like if you have a good reputation so so like any attracted user will cost you much much lower. >> That's great to know. I appreciate your insights, Vlad, into all these different categories, especially about the AI and LLMs since it's much newer than the

41:10traditional marketing uh streams u but becoming ever more important. Is there a place to learn more about this if you have a company or uh reach out to you? you know what's the best way to learn more and follow up? >> Um I think that um any crypto project can reach us directly via website. So and we are definitely ready to share

41:38some insights we already have because we do a lot of R&D in terms of AI as well. >> So and we are ready to share it. Yeah, >> sounds great. Thank thank you so much for the time Vlad. appreciate uh what you and the team at IICOTA are are working on here and the insights for for crypto companies. Keep targeting those web two users as well. I'd love to see

42:01more people in blockchain and would love to follow up again in the near future. >> Thank you, Ashton.