Peter Nobels on Kalipo’s DAO management tools for Lisk

0:01i'm ashton addison from block west capital for investmentpitch media and today on the cryptocoin show we have peter nobles ceo and co-founder of calipo peter welcome to the show and thank you for taking the time yeah thanks for inviting me ashton and glad to be here with you and your audience so looking forward to this interview likewise thank you so much i'm excited

0:21to dive into dao's and specifically in the lisk ecosystem as well which is super fascinating i would love for you to kick off the conversation for us uh with just a bit of the background on what you and your team have built at kalipo and and how that fits into the blockchain space and then we'll dive into all the details okay as a good point to start from uh we are the middle

0:46of building our mvp so it's all in the making uh calipo is a platform on which you can establish your own dao your taylormade dao we are going to work with templates we approach it from the community side every community here we use community as a as an overall term to address people working together people with a shared mission and all communities have their own

1:13needs so we start with a template and we offer them a starting dao in which they have a treasury in which they can manage their funds member lists proposals proposal types and also constitution which contains their set of procedures by which they like to uh to manage to manage themselves so is that uh something to start from definitely yeah thank you for that and i

1:40feel like there's so much to be perfected in daos still you mentioned treasury management there which i feel like is one of the most important um but from what we've seen of the the cryptocurrency industry sort of working with dows and trying to build out the future of internet organizations really um there i feel like there's still a lot to work on um where do you

2:04guys start and how do you maybe you can comment on how do you properly work on the treasury management and the money part of dao's and then we can go from there yeah and you address a very good topic as much to learn and then there's almost an endless design space so you can go everywhere so you have to start some somewhere and we we start very simple

2:27we say it's like starting in whatsapp group with a lot of members and giving them a treasury and some mechanisms to vote to make proposals but starting with the the treasury yeah what we start just with having tokens at start from one kind as you said we are building on the list blockchain infrastructure so you can manage your list tokens on our uh with

2:54our treasury management function um and at the moment we have just one now let's say just two kind of transactions below a certain amount of tokens and then perhaps you just need a multi-sick two of your colleagues members voting with you to make the transfer happen but above a certain amount yeah and that threshold is to be

3:23decided upon by the members some communities say well above a thousand euro i'm from europe we have to vote all and below it just depends on two or three people so we have two proposal types value transfers below a certain threshold and value transfers above a certain amount of tokens so that's where we start from and then we're going to add

3:51different currencies perhaps also fiat currencies let's say you have a work package which is done let's say uh developing a piece of software and the contractor like to be paid in via the fiat currencies so the treasury will contain over time more and more different currencies so that's where we start from does this sound logic and then definitely yeah that

4:18sounds great and i feel like you know with so as you mentioned there's sort of an endless amount of functions that you can create to in in an internet organization uh or a dow um that at what point do you say that's enough you know and with uh before you launch the mvp you know as you you guys are working on the mvp right now i'm curious in how long

4:42you have been working on it since the start and at what point is there enough functionality for you to take it to the next stage of a main release yeah that's a good question we started building we we are funded by a grant of the liske foundation we won with our proposal a project proposal we were in a certain amount of list coins and that's our funding

5:09and we started building in in last year in the autumn so we are now we are supposed to launch or to deliver the mvp the first of july but we our roadmap is also connected to the roadmap of lisk and they are planning to have a totally new release as i recall in the beginning of 2024

5:37so that will be the real launch of our system uh but for the functionality that the mpp functionality will be ready on our site the first of july and then we are going to add what we call constitution management there we offer every group who who establish a dao on our platform we offer them a basic set of procedures and from there their own they can learn

6:02and they can adapt i i mentioned the the value transfers with a certain amount but you can also make proposals let's raise this threshold to 2000 euro or 10 000 depends on the community so they have voting mechanisms mechanisms to adjust their procedures and that i think this is may this makes it very convenient instead of going all over the hustle

6:29of improvement proposals perhaps you you recall the bips and uh bitcoin of the eips in ethereum and asked for a lot of community discussions and uh i will be supporting those discussions with a proposal uh handling proposals but the the moment uh proposal is decided upon in this case uh

6:56it will be executed on the platform immediately so very cool yeah so we have proposals about how you transfers but also about memberships do we vote somebody in or out or about uh just uh uh making an adjustment to the platform so we have different proposal type and the constitution management as we call it is our second second release great peter and you mentioned there

7:23about getting a lisk grant which i think is really cool i'm curious on the technology choice of building all this functionality on the lisk blockchain and ecosystem and you know why the lisk technology is the best for this because you know you often don't hear about um dows that are on lisk um you know we've heard of ethereum and some of the other blockchains

7:51mainly just to save costs from ethereum but uh not for lisks so i'm curious on why that technology is going to make uh calipo a great solution yeah there are several reasons that we chose for for lisc as an infrastructure first of all uh they have i i really like their architecture they have a main chain and side chains and with with this architecture they are creating a kind of

8:19library of different services which can be offered i.t services to the different side chains with the main chain being the the transporter and also be there you can pack uh for security so that's one reason yeah the building about being part of an ecosystem of i.t services which can make use of each other that's one reason and also the side chains you can choose

8:44your own consensus mechanism you can you can go with the the lisk what this supports you whether the depos a decentralized proof of stake but when you choose to start for example is it just a proof of authority let's say you're building something for health care and there are several hospitals or general partitioners wanting to to have a note you can start from there

9:09so you can choose your own consensus mechanism that's not the other reason and it's also more lightweighted this way because you don't all the side chains the the the main chain doesn't have the burden of all transactions being on the on the main chain so it's kind of a layer two construction built in and another reason is also that they're sdk they have a software development kit

9:33by which you can code in a javascript and also we have a a kind of a partnership with the university of applied science and utrecht and a lot of students are familiar with javascript and it's very hard to find really good and cheap solidity pro developers so also for that reason this shortage in the market for the solidity

10:00programmers yeah we made a choice for lisk yeah no i think and and i want to mention one thing it's not techno technology driven but i very much like the the approach of the lisk foundation and they're steadily delivering on the promises veteran team uh really solid that they are very trustful and very well promising on delivering on their promises

10:28definitely no i i did speak with the ceo of lisk on on the platform on their platform updates recently and i know they've been around since a long time in the birth of ethereum and you know although they didn't have the network effect that ethereum has they have made huge progress in updating to you know the world of d5 and nfts and dows so i i do agree with you there and also

10:54about the javascript and the sdks i know that that makes it really easy to be able to develop and especially javascript with the amount of developers in the world that already know these traditional languages that don't have to go and learn solidity or new programming language on ethereum that's going to make it way easier to get the rest of the world

11:17involved in blockchain so um great reasons there peter and yeah i think that's a good choice um now with the mvp uh and and where you guys are right now are people already able to start like testing out this functionality and creating mini dowels well on our website we have a kind of demo and you can walk it through and uh experience a little bit yourself but

11:43that was a really a proof of concept version so don't be too uh to high expectations but to give you a kind of feeling how it works so after the mvp you should be able to establish your own uh dow and you can do voting and you can do uh yeah it's just voting on uh proposals without execution follow-up execution on the platform itself it's more like a

12:09snapshot everybody agrees how we spent our profits do we have a team a team a party or do we spend it somewhere else so it just it gives it gives you a feeling how um how you you as a community can vote and and and together on proposals so definitely and yeah i like the approach of following along with the roadmap as

12:37well and you talked about 2024 and i recently had a conversation with another dow and the founders were talking about how they see dows over 100 years from now right and it's no easy process to build internet organizations and automate all of the functionality of internet companies it's not it's not a one-year you know just one and done you know so i i have a

13:02feeling like this is something that's going to be um at you know as you said you have the main functionality but there's a million other things that that will come after that and it's like a never-ending process yeah and we have a clear vision on that uh first we start with dow as teams let's say a group of people or 15 or 20 or so or so many people

13:24and then we are going to build constellations like parent child constructions there you start as a team and you have commissions or sub teams or whatever and they have relations to what she's other and they let's say the the the parent uh divides the the budget and every child gets his own budget it's also it's almost like fractals it's it's it's uh the copying the

13:50structures to the lower levels and the next step will be uh doubt doing transactions between each other you have a work package you want another doubt to do the work for you like a talent or a work market and then they can rather do proposals or and then you can make like what we call a contract composure and when you have a conflict between

14:18a contractor and a client then you need some agreements on when to deliver on what terms payout scheme and the other thing is all happening on the same platform and we we are also making uh the the the mother of all the house which runs the platform so every dow can have a seat

14:46in the calipo dao and then you are going to rain or to govern the whole platform and you can you get a treasury of the platform itself and where you are some transaction fee and you have like a vit a kind of take rate which ends up in the treasury of the platform and then as members you can decide how do we spend it are we going to build new functionality

15:14on on calipo or are we going to to divide it to distribute it to all members so we're already thinking how to exit to the community and give them a say in the overall course but this these are the main elements very interesting peter and you mentioned about the treasury management and that you also you know working with lisk there's the at some point the list tokens are

15:41involved there i'm curious if um there is functionality just for for all digital assets stable coins bitcoin or just lisk and also if there's a calipo coin that will be involved in it as well yeah i think in the end to start from your last question and there will be a clip or coin here because yeah it's in a evitable it's like shares to start with we like to

16:08everybody participate in in governing the platform so then you have to to to give some kind of rights uh and also when you want to profit from uh to distribute all rev or profits who to share it too so tokens will be part of it um and in the treasury you can have all kind of of tokens and we start with this lisk and we are going to add more and more

16:35tokens over time does it sound reasonable definitely yeah and um for you know the next six months and sort of the rest of 2022 what are the main initiatives that you and your team are looking to get done yeah as i said the mvp will be mostly about proposals and memberships the second part will be about what we call constitution management and the third

17:02part will be about ownership and shares and perhaps already the clipboard tokens we don't know yet we are investigating it if you like to hear it we are doing some research on how to mint tokens and how to distribute tokens and then yeah we like to onboard our first user groups and we envisioned it will be web native developer teams perhaps also uh groups

17:32of people running a note how are we going together to decide uh how to share the profits the note will make or the delegates as they call them in uh lisk so we are then we are going to focus on user groups and perhaps from there i'm yeah i'm also having talks with a political party who wants some functionality for their democratic and engagement of their

18:01members so it depends a little bit on our user groups the first user groups how we are going to build our next versions of releases that's great to hear peter and yeah i think getting political parties and getting blockchain voting in uh actual elections is a great use case for dows and and we'll hopefully we'll see yeah in the coming years as well now for the viewers

18:24that are looking to learn more about uh know this dow ecosystem and and following along with the updates for kalipo what is the best way for them to learn more and to follow along yeah you mean uh uh dallas in general or just clipboard well for calipo yeah well for clipboard you can find me on linkedin and that's the most the platform i use most they are also active

18:48on twitter but not so not too much you can also visit our website but it's a little bit outdated at the moment so we have to make an update uh there but the best way to contact me is on on linkedin okay sounds great peter i will leave and we also have excuse me yes we also have a discord channel so uh when you type a clip you can find us there as well perfect yeah i will leave

19:13the calipo platform link and the discord and your linkedin as well in the description box below for the viewers uh thank you peter for taking the time i'm really fascinated and excited to see how uh daos will come out to fruition and all of this functionality and and how it's all going to work in the blockchain industry and hopefully all of the world

19:32as everyone outside of blockchain gets involved so all the best with you and your team's work on calipo moving forward and let's follow up in the near future yeah thank you thank you and uh i hear you're a great supporter of this uh way of thinking so well let's make it happen together and perhaps as a last comment i also raised the dao hub a group of experts from all fields

19:56thinking together what the doubts can can do for the world so when you type in dao hub on google perhaps you find us as well great peter thank you so much okay thanks for having me and good luck with your show you