Bisher Khudeira explains why crypto investors choose brokerages

0:00I'm Ashton Addison from the Cryptocoin Show and today on Blockchain Interviews, we have Bisher Cadera, COO of Storm Rank. Here to talk about Bitcoin, trading, brokerages, uh, and so much more. Bisher, thank you for taking the time. Thanks for having me on. I can't wait to have a chat about everything from crypto to Bitcoin to trading and brokerage. This is my living and my

0:22love. So, happy to get into it. Definitely. And I'm interested in learning more on uh the brokerage accounts and you know there's so many people I think that are used to traditional brokerage accounts as well that have now in the last year and two years with the ETFs from Bitcoin and other altcoins soon they're getting interested in crypto and they're used to

0:43that experience but uh they aren't you know it Bitcoin can be a little bit of unfamiliar territory but I think we could break down those barriers and I'm interested to learn the differences there because there's a huge wave of adoption coming in with crypto and uh I want to be ahead of the game in knowledge and the latest updates. I know Stormak has been growing a lot and I'm

1:07excited to dive in with you. So I would love to start off with a little bit on what you and your team have been building at Stormreak uh and you know what sort of inspired you to get involved in this. Awesome. So just to give a little bit of background and color and history on the on the storm rake journey. The business started in 2019. Um we got co-founded by Doug

1:29Hemingway and Michael Milmeister. It was initially just meant to be a statistical arbitrage trading desk where they were running their own private capital in the markets. The brokerage arm of the business didn't get spun up until I joined the desk in 2022. My entire corporate career has been foreign exchange and crypto brokerage uh for the last decade and then Storm Rake was I

1:52found them and we had a little bit of a passion project to serve you know our own friends and family whilst we traded our own private capital. Um so we had about 100 clients heading into uh 2023 in which we primarily was just friends and family to be honest with you. We didn't really have anybody off the street or any clients that we didn't know of directly. And so, uh, but now

2:14we're pushing 5,000. We've got a big American expansion going on because we've just registered as a money services business in the United States, which is quite exciting. Um, but what we're working on at the moment are three things. We're building out our uh, US integration so that our clients can trade with us in the US seamlessly and in a completely compliant manner. So,

2:37we're currently acquiring our money transmitter licenses. Our clients can trade with us there. We service currently about eight states within the US and look to add more every single week. Um, and then we're also integrating two primary products that we'll offer uh will offer alongside our prime brokerage account which is a spend and lend solution. Um, we're going to be

2:58I'm sure we can discuss this in detail but um uh stable masterards uh just going through the roof. There was Mastercard XMOP recently. Um there's a lot of these kind of collaborations. There was Mastercard X MetaMask, you know, that that that came out earlier in the year. So Storm Rake is going to be delivering a Mastercard to our clients so that they can spend stable coins and

3:21hold Bitcoin because Bitcoin is the best possible savings account you can have on the planet. And stable coins are a fantastic way to spend and remit value um cross border and then actually be able to tap and go as you please anywhere in the world wherever Mastercard or Visa Card is accepted. So that's something that we're building up in the background. We're also

3:41integrating our own lending solution as well so that clients can borrow against their Bitcoin holdings. Um so that's something that we've been quite excited about as well because why would you ever want to sell your Bitcoin when you can simply borrow against it? Now it has to be done in the right way. It will be primarily a wholesale solution. It's not

4:00going to be a retail solution to begin with. uh because obviously you want to make sure that the right type of investor is getting access to leverage because you don't want to offer it to just about everyone. And something that we've just launched is Storm Rake asset management. So usually as a broker we can give our clients guidance and recommendations as to what we're

4:20focusing on, what opportunities are there, and then the client makes the ultimate decision as to whether they take the trade or not. But what we've had time and time again is I've had people come to me with like a quarter of a million dollars, half a million dollars and say, "Bish you just trade it for me." And I'm like, I can't I can't trade you funds. I'm not uh licensed to

4:38do so. I I'm licensed as a broker. And so I said, you know what? Why don't I just get licensed and then give give the clients the ability to do so? So, we've just acquired um uh our corporate authorized representation as a uh from an AFSL or an Australian financial services license provider. And so, now we've got Stormreak Asset Management up and running as well, which is a

5:01wholesale investor fund. So, there's quite a lot going on behind the scenes at the moment. Our core offering is our prime brokerage and custody services. And then complementing that is our asset management, lend solution, and spend solution. Asset management is live now. lend and spend probably closer to the end of the year. Wow, that's a a lot that the team is expanding into. And I

5:23would love to touch on those US markets hitting the different states. It's always an interesting journey coming from uh another country into the US. And then the Mastercard sounds amazing. You know, there's been a huge discussion around debit cards and and how can we get the perfect crypto card lined up and now that Mastercard's on board, uh that's great to see. So, I'd love to

5:43touch on that. and then the prime brokerage as well. And you mentioned there about the leveraging for for Bitcoin and getting access to more capital. That's always exciting. But you mentioned that, you know, there's sort of restrictions and making sure it's the right users. So I'm curious on sort of the the average users of Storm Rake right now. Is it a diversified pot of

6:06those high net worth individuals like institutions? Are there beginners or crypto people that have smaller accounts as well? It's a it's a fantastic question because I've always wanted to build a platform and a service which is for everyone, right? We do have a minimum, however, which is a $2,000 US transaction minimum uh per trade. So, that kind of filters out people who just

6:30want to have a $50 or $100 dabble. You can do that on any old exchange without much risk to your persons. But anybody who's wanting to put meaningful funds into the market, $2,000 or more, um we have built a service and a platform which is designed for them. So, we have a wide breadth of clients that we take care of. Uh, every from from firsttime traders and investors into the space who

6:54are looking to put a $5,000 investment into Bitcoin or Ethereum or something similar, right all the way up to, you know, wholesale and institutional clients who are making, you know, 1 5 $10 million plus allocations. So, we've got a really good team. We've got our clients that are getting looked after by our retail brokers. We've got our wholesale OTC trading desk which is

7:15taking care of um more more crypto trading type of settlements. Um we have a watch dealer for example, a luxury watch dealer that we work with who accepts crypto payments for their watches as an option and we help them with the settlements on that side in terms of sending and remitting and converting um either fiat currency into the crypto or crypto into fiat depending

7:37on the type of settlement the client is looking for. And then we also have the institutional offering which is the asset management fund. So there is something for everyone and I don't want Bitcoin to become like this uh we can touch on this I hope which is a lot of corporations have been buying Bitcoin and retail has been selling Bitcoin. Bitcoin has always been the people's

7:59money for for all of us. And so I've got a bit of a personal uh stake in the matter because I come from a country called Lebanon. I was born and raised in Australia, but that's where my heritage is from. And they are dealing with rampant hyperinflation. And if it wasn't for Bitcoin and my ability to remit Bitcoin to my relatives back home, they would be in a really bad spot. So, I do

8:22want to see more retail and everyday mom and dad investors hold Bitcoin. Uh so that way they can partake in this financial revolution we're under underway. Yeah, it's a great point and I don't want to get away from that where it's just the corporations holding it. Bitcoin was is is was designed to be, you know, the money for the people. Um, so I'm I'm glad that the Storm Rick

8:46platform is also open to, you know, MPA barring they have over 2,000, which um I would hope that they're getting smart enough to be putting more amount uh into assets that are not under hyperinflation. Um, and it seems that the ones have done that years ago have have been well off. And you mentioned, you know, for those $1,500 traders, they could use any old exchange. Um, I would

9:11love to get a a sort of a basic level comparison for those that maybe they use a crypto exchange and they have a few thousand or maybe they have a few tens of thousands right now. What is that main competitive advantage between the any old crypto exchange and moving to a brokerage like Storm Rake for mainly for trading purposes or maybe they're exploring those other functions?

9:34Yeah, it's a it's a great question. So, as a prime broker, it's not that we're just able to provide you buy, sell, swap, deposit, and withdraw capabilities. an exchange can provide that to you and so can we. But we also have a range of complimentary services that we're building out and currently deliver that as a prime broker, you just don't get have access to that when

9:54you're trading on an exchange. Secondly, I always explain to my clients quality of price execution is super important. When you're trading on an exchange, especially if you're dealing with their buy now option, which is when you first log in and you see buy Bitcoin or buy Ethereum, the spread on that thing is monstrous. Like, you know, for example, Bitcoin could be trading at 103,000 US,

10:16but you might be buying it close to 103800, sometimes a full $1,000 clip over the current market price, right? So, you're paying a massive premium when you're using uh exchanges. and sometimes their order books aren't super um super deep. So, what I mean by that is you might go into your exchange and skip the buy now section which has these horrendous spreads and price premiums

10:40and you go straight to the order book and you might want to buy 20,000 30,000 $50,000 worth of Bitcoin. But at the current offering at the which is close to the market price you might only have 20 or 25,000 USD $25,000 worth of liquidity available. So by the time you put your order through at market at least you've slipped yourself up at the order book. So what we do for our

11:03clients in terms of quality of price execution we're facing 30 different exchanges in five different private markets. So we can get our client as close to the market price at the time of the order request regardless of the size that they come in with. So if the market is showing that the mid price is 103100 for example, we can get our clients in at 103

11:251110320 which is razor tight um because we don't make our money on spreads or price markups. We charge a flat commission. So our clients also know what the costs of their trade will be prior to actually placing the trade itself so that there's no hidden costs. And then the final thing that they would really choose to use us as opposed to an exchange is quality of service. Every

11:48single one of my clients gets assigned a dedicated broker on the desk that they'll be working with and have a personal relationship with. We do have a wider support team which is available 7 days a week, 365 days a year to answer, you know, general inquiries, general support and stuff like that, which is not a problem. But if you want to actually place a trade, you want to chat

12:09markets, you want to discuss your portfolio, you've actually got a dedicated broker that will be working with you across the whole thing. So that's actually a really powerful position to be in. So yeah, mainly the breadth of services we provide, quality of price execution as well as the personalized service as well. Yeah. No, that's really nice, Bisher. Um, and with

12:29the buy now button that you mentioned, I've seen these exchanges, you know, they they have an order book or they have advanced trading, but sort of hiding in the back and they make that buy now button right there and they don't really explain, you know, you're just buying at whatever they think, you know, the order book is, yeah, it can be $1,000 more. Um and and the fees on top

12:52of that, they're more expensive to buy to use the buy now button than it is to go in and yourself. Um so it does make a huge difference if you're doing tens of thousands of dollars uh potentially thousands of dollars lost uh by not and and the fact that you also have the ability to be on the phone with somebody. I feel like that's more what the traditional brokerages uh the people

13:14that traded in Trady, they're used to, you know, they pick up the phone, they're like, "Buy this for me." You know, um but with Bitcoin, it seems like there's that big disconnect. Um and I think a lot of people that have been getting into Bitcoin that have been, you know, in the generation older than mine, they they want somebody to talk to. They're always asking me, you know, how

13:36do I learn more about Bitcoin? and there's not really a single resource to give them. I say you sort of have to Google things or YouTube things and figure it out yourself. Um, but if you have a brokerage that you can, you know, ask personal questions about your portfolio, I think that's really comforting for a lot of people. Absolutely. And we want them to avoid

13:56the mistakes that we've made after decades of experience of investing in the markets cuz there's the amount of beginner mistakes that we stop our clients from going into is insane. Like I was speaking to a lovely lady yesterday. Um you know she's just about to enter her retirement. She's never invested in digital assets before and she goes um what should I do? You know

14:17I've got no idea what I'm doing. I said let's just get you started with the Mac Daddy. Let's get into Bitcoin. It's the largest and most liquid market. It's the best way to actually get exposure to this asset class. It's although volatile, it is the safest in the crypto market space and you're actually rewarded that with that volatility with quite a quite a healthy sharp ratio. So

14:36all of these things that tradfire investors already know the language about but just kind of distilling that information in a way that's more uh understanding for them. But then she goes, "Well, how much is it?" And cuz we're quoting in Aussie dollars, I said, "It's about 160,000 Australian dollars at the moment per Bitcoin." And she goes, "Oh, that's

14:55expensive." I said, 'Well, there's only 21 million units, so naturally the price is going to be commanding quite a high unit price. She goes, "Have you got anything cheaper available?" I said, "What do you mean?" And she goes, "I I've heard about this Ripple thing. It's like $2." I said, "Yeah, it's about $340 Australian." She goes, "I really like that. I I'd want something cheap." And

15:13so then I explained how there's 100 billion XRP tokens and 21 million bitcoins and why there is a difference in the unit price based off the amount of supply. And then she was like, "I never thought about that." I'm like, "That's okay. Okay, that's what I'm here for. So, it's just those really common misconceptions and beginner mistakes that a lot of people fall into, whether

15:32it be uh following falling in love with unit price or, you know, hearing some sort of misinformation online um and speculation online and then going, does this make sense? We can actually provide them really cold hard factual information cuz that's how I operate. I try to avoid uh speculating on things. I have an investment thesis and I share that with my clients and then give them

15:55the platform and opportunity to execute those investment ideas rather than them having to kind of, you know, read stuff on Instagram or wherever they find it on Twitter or X and then be able to try to jump onto a platform and then place a trade based off that information. It's like we actually have this super collaborative approach and we also share

16:14with them just basic resources and education to help them make informed decisions. Yeah, I love that. And I was actually just going to ask about XRP and some of these other coins. Some of the firsttime investors that I've spoken to, you know, they also have heard Doge because Jo Do Doge is even less, you know, 20 cents around there right now. Or some of the

16:36other meme coins that have made it into the billion dollar market cap, you know, they're in the decimals of a cent, but of course there's trillions of supply. But it's how a lot of new investors get in. And most of the time they would probably be better off buying Bitcoin, but it gets them interested in digital assets and blockchain technology. And that leads me to the question of with

17:01altcoins and and other assets on Storm Rake, you know, how widespread are those options and and how do you decide when is the right time to list new coins that, you know, eventually some of these coins turn into multi-billion dollar projects? Um, but it's hard to know how early to start listing legitimate projects. It's a it's a fantastic question, Ashton. And we've actually

17:24worked through this over the years. It's been a refined methodology. So, we what we've done for ourselves is we've actually capped our coin list to no more than 50 tokens. And if something is going to be added into our list of supported tokens and networks, something's got to come out. So, what we offer to our clients is a litany of uh trading coins that they can get into,

17:51but none that we wouldn't actually invest in ourselves, right? And the reason why we do that is that there's, you know, millions of tokens out there these days. Um, in terms of those that have liquid markets, there's thousands of them that have liquid markets. And so it could be quite overwhelming for the everyday investor to transition from stocks where you're probably familiar

18:10with the magnificent seven and maybe some consumer goods and tech and kind of stuff like that. But then you come into this space where you've got thousands upon thousands of options to to choose from. Even the top 100, there's plenty in there that are potentially good projects that has got quite small market caps that has a lot of potential to grow up. So, what we do is we consolidate our

18:32list to more than no more than 50 coins and tokens and if there's something that's going to be coming in and like we really like the look of something, we review the coin on its own merits and then we assess it against our existing list of tokens. And if our existing list of tokens are stronger than the current project that we're looking to add in, we

18:52don't add it in. So, that's kind of like the filter, right? But if it's looking stronger than any one or two of our existing uh supported tokens, then we just have to make a case as to whether we delist that token and then give our clients a call and say, "Look, for this following reason, we're actually removing this coin from our supported token list. You're welcome to withdraw

19:14if you wish to continue to hold the position yourself cuz we don't force our clients into selling or anything like that or swapping." But then we present the case for the new coin that we're looking to list. And then the client has the decision, do I hold with uh for privately and and withdraw my own coins, which is perfectly fine, or do I want to uh partake in this new offering? And the

19:36client has just made uh and it's not like we become super bearish on something we previously supported. But we want to make sure that it that when somebody jumps onto our platform or calls our brokers, we're not just hammering them with names and symbols and all this kind of stuff. It's like, "No, this is a investment account. We want you to treat it like gold, right?

19:57We want you to treat it like it's your own stock brokerage account. We want you to actually put assets in there that you're comfortable to hold for the medium to long term. If you're looking to trade short-term and you want to be in and out of positions, that's really not what we're designed for, right? It's not we're not here to cater to, you know, the pump fund traders and stuff

20:17like that. You can buy Salana from us with razor sharp prices. Withdraw to your Phantom wallet and have at it. You can go hard on the memes on Phantom and and and Deck Screener. You don't need me for that, right? Um but in terms of what I do, if you want to buy Salana and you want to withdraw or you want to hold it with us, that's perfectly fine and we'll

20:36get you great and that's a great project by the way. Like I'm I'm a big Soul fan. So I think it's a great uh token to hold. But if you wish to actually be really active in trading, you can withdraw it into your own private wallet and then, you know, be on a DEX and then just go hard and then when you're ready to offramp and let's say you buy from me, you know, 500 soul and then

20:56hopefully your memecoin activity trading takes you to a,000 soul, you can come back and offramp through us as well. So that's how we want to position ourselves. were not here to just try to offer because there's um even um uh Coinbase was struggling with the amount of tokens that were getting listed and they they list a lot of tokens. Binance lists a lot of tokens and again they've

21:19got a different business model that they're trying to cater for everything and everyone but 99.9% of tokens that get launched on the Binance launchpad end up going to zero. Right? And so I don't have any intention on positioning my clients in things that I ultimately think are going to go to zero as well. So I only support tokens that have got liquid markets, have got the capacity to

21:42perform, you know, and are really well researched because every single token and coin that we support on our platform has its own little fact sheet, its own 101 in terms of what it is, how it operates, why, what the bullish thesis is for it, where it can become invalidated. So that kind of research is also something that you're not going to get from an exchange because we do

22:05genuinely want our clients to be successful with us. Um we can't guarantee performance but we can do things like you know have a really narrow selection of assets and then well researched assets as well to help our clients you know potentially beat the market. Yeah. No it's a really interesting methodology and it's a different approach than some of these

22:25other exchanges. I have seen the Binance tokens launched I think in the last year and I think 100% of them are are below the launch price and they the rationale of listing tokens that because you're trying to catch a wave and we saw that uh in the with the launch of the the Trump coin in January all these different exchanges were were they saw everyone else is listing Trump let's

22:53list it too because we want catch And who really cares if it's sustainable long term, which of course um it so far it hasn't really played out. U it's still around, but you know, if if you unless you bought in the first hours of it listing, you're probably at break even or or a loss because you know, went up 20x and then it crashed 99%. And um it's and and and that was in within a

23:19week or two, you know, and it's like that's not a investor's game, that's a trader or a gamblers's game. So, it's a different approach. Um, but 100% with these, you know, made in America coins and the Trump administration being so uh bullish for for crypto and and crypto positive and now Storm Rick moving into uh the the American markets. I'd love to

23:43talk more about that. You know, what do you think about the American markets right now? Are they saturated? Uh is there a huge gap for Storm Rake to fill as a prime brokerage? And is there a huge appetite in America for this type of service right now? It's a great question. First of all, God bless America because you guys are absolute champions. I honestly love my American

24:05clients cuz you guys have a a much better uh at risk appetite here in Australia. I'll give you guys a bit of a color. Um we're we're we're funloving. We're laidback. We're an awesome culture. And it's definitely any American is willing to come down for a bit of a holiday, come down. It's a beautiful country. Um, but we're very conservative people in the sense that

24:25we're not willing to take risks. Um, and it's reflected in our economy. We're pretty much property and mining. That's all that our economy is. Whereas you guys, you love risk. You got big appetites. That's what I love about Americans. They're very bullish. And so for us, in terms of coming in as a prime broker, you guys are perfectly underserviced, which is great for me

24:45because I want to come in and look after the American investor when it comes to how they can get access to the markets. Cuz really what they're offered right now is either an exchange where you can just buy, sell, and swap yourself or an ETF in a traditional prime brokerage account which is like wrapped custodial bitcoin. There is been conversations

25:06about having uh redemptions, you know, inkind redemptions in the ETF, but it's just not there yet at the moment. Um, also the DTCC has put a 100% haircut on the ability to leverage your Bitcoin ETF positions. So you can't you can't leverage your your Bitcoin position um with with regards to the Bitcoin ETFs. So you don't get a lot of the benefit of having your own claim on Bitcoin where

25:29you get to hold it for yourself. And then you've got these exchanges where it's a mess to navigate. There's a thousand tokens getting hammered in front of you. Your buy now is, you know, 3 4% off the market price plus fees. So it's not actually a really good solution for majority of the American investors there. So I'm going to come in and give them the kind of hybrid approach between

25:51what they've what a crypto exchange would provide and a traditional tradime brokerage would provide and in the middle that's where I come in and that's where I'll be able to service you know the US and I think it is something that you guys would really appreciate and come to love the service as well because you know you guys have a massive tipping culture it's pretty normal and so having

26:12a broker in your corner to be able to take care of your investments it's a kind of white glove on your service. Come in, take your jacket off, let me look after you. My team is hardworking. So, let that's what we're all about. And I think that you guys have such a fantastic array of solutions in the Tradfi space, but the crypto space is just not quite there yet when it comes

26:34to prime brokerage services, which is why I'm excited to come in and and offer what I can do and let the market be the judge as to whether I'm a good provider or not. Yeah. No, it sounds delightful to be able to take your coat off and, you know, have the broker handle the, you know, do the the sweating for you. So, um, it I'm I'm excited to see how it

26:55plays out. And you mentioned at the beginning about eight states so far, and you know, you have to go state by state. Um, and I know some of them are harder. I believe you know, New York is like nearly impossible. I'm not sure um where you guys are at with that, but what are the main highly populated areas or states that you're already into and the targeted areas? How is all that going?

27:19Yeah, we can do California, Pennsylvania as the largest uh areas that we can currently support. Um there's also uh Utah is also supported. Nevada is also supported. A lot of the West Coast is pretty pretty friendly. um and trying to currently get through to the to the southwest. So, uh Louisiana is also supported, which is a lot of fun. Um I love I love Louisiana barbecue. So, um

27:46I'm keen to head over there. I'll be at the Bitcoin conference actually in Las Vegas in um uh in a in a few weeks time. So, I'm keen on that. But yeah, in terms of where we're at now, I've got a lot of areas that we're looking to continue to support. Uh most of the West Coast is pretty well serviced in terms of the more densely populated areas. Um, I

28:05haven't made my way through the Midwest yet. Uh, but uh, everybody deserves this kind of service. Even if you're in Idaho, which, um, is quite, from what I understand, not a lot of people there, but even our potato farmers deserve to have access to a prime broker as well. Definitely. And I'd love to know uh, more on the the card. I think a lot of people that are in crypto, you know,

28:29it's hard for them to grasp when it's only digital, even though, you know, they're probably using Apple Pay, Google Pay on their phone, but when you have a physical card u or like the Mastercard partnership, I feel like you feel like you actually feel more inclined to be like, hey, I can actually spend this or I can, you know, see my savings in my hand. So, what's the situation on the

28:49crypto card? Yeah, so it's probably a few months away from being launched. Um, we're going currently through the integration process at the moment and making sure that it's done in a way that it can be reaching settlement quite quickly. So, it's it's it's not just a technical integration. There's like a back-end trading solution that needs to work out

29:07as well. But that's not for the client to worry about. I just want them to have the convenience of having the Mastercard on their Apple Pay or Google Pay account like and then they just tap and go and happy days, right? So that's all the experience that we're aiming for and there's already a litany of white label partnerships that do provide those solutions which we're working through at

29:25the moment. Uh but yeah, you're absolutely right. The reason why we're pursuing this opportunity is that you'll have your your prime brokerage account with Storm Rake where you log in, you get to see your portfolio, you get to see your investments, how they're tracking. Um, they're also indexed against Bitcoin because if you're branched out against uh, let's say

29:43you're buying XRP or Ethereum or Salana, you want to make sure that you're outperforming Bitcoin price performance. So, you'll always have your equity chart alongside the Bitcoin price performance. And there's actually, you know, a bit of a learning there. I I'll digress and I'll come back to the card. A lot of the time our clients underperform when they

30:02choose we don't push them into alts but when they choose to branch out into alts they actually genuinely generally sorry underperform Bitcoin right there are a handful like I'd say you know 1 in 10 or 2 in 10 that would outperform Bitcoin with their selections but most of the time they generally underperform BTC and the reason that we put that in there

30:26isn't to go uh oh you know haha you should invest into should have invested into Bitcoin, but it's to teach them how to be have an investor mindset when it comes to cryptocurrency markets. Coming back to the card, uh we are actually uh focused on making it real for people cuz you mentioned something there that really hit home for me which is try as I

30:47might explain this to my mom, my brother, my sister, my auntie, my uncle, they just doesn't make sense to them, you know? It it just genuinely just goes over their head. But then I say, "Oh, but you can spend it." And then all of a sudden it becomes real. Right? And I think that was I think that was the real kind of moment for me that made me realize that if it if they can't spend

31:08it, it's not real to them. Right? Of course, for me, I was in Thailand recently and I was able to convert my Bitcoin, 0.03 of a Bitcoin, might I add, for 90,000 Thai Bart, right? And you get to live like a king there. Like even like a luxury gourmet meal is like 500 Bart, right? So yeah, you get to live quite quite a lavish lifestyle, but that 0.03 of a Bitcoin is only like4500 or

31:33$4,000 Australian dollars or like 2,800 US dollars, right? And it's still But for them, that whole convertability thing doesn't make sense because not I come from a foreign exchange background. So when I get to see an asset that's liquid 24/7, convertible into every single currency on the planet is globally recognized, like wow, there's a lot of value in that. But for somebody

31:56who doesn't come from that foreign exchange background, it's hard to explain to them those value propositions. And so when you put a card in their hands and say, "Here you go, spend it." It becomes real. So, uh, that's why we're pursuing that solution is that you still want to have your prime brokerage account where you've got your investments in it and then you can

32:13move some of your profits or, you know, you can move one of the coins across to be able to spend so that it you can be able to fuel your everyday lifestyle. Yeah. No, that's um that's really nice. And yeah, you you can definitely live like a king there, especially um if you can spend your crypto. And the the ironic thing is they understand stocks, but you can't really spend your stocks

32:36and it's different asset class, but and I think that's why a lot of economists also have really uh they wrote off Bitcoin in the beginning was because this is a brand new asset class, but it looks like the US is really this new administration. They're, you know, they're they're going full steam ahead and they want to be the crypto capital of the world. And uh I think it's a

33:00great time for Storm Rank to be expanding into the US, especially with the amount of uh traditional financial people that are not yet in Bitcoin. Maybe they've explored the ETF, but don't actually hold crypto, which is the real thing, holding the the Bitcoin, not the ETF. Um so I think this is great timing. Is there anything else that you want to mention on the road map and

33:22continued expansion uh in the US for the rest of 2025? That's that my plate is full, right? I've got uh the with with the US expansion, the card and the lending integration, uh we genuinely are tapped out because uh and we're hiring like no tomorrow. So, it's been very good, but we're we're being cognizant not to overpromise and underdel. We have we

33:46want to be able to focus on a few key projects that will complement our existing prime brokerage and custody solution quite well because that's already humming like like we're one of Australia's best brokers. We're well known here in the local market and we want to provide that offering in the US and so alongside that the lens spend solution is going to be fantastic. So,

34:08you know, we do have a desire to uh integrate a collaborative custody solution for Bitcoin only where you can hold a set of keys, I'll hold a set of keys, and then we'll have a set of keys with a um trusted third party just as a recovery option. Um so, uh there's a couple of businesses in the US that are already doing this quite well, I might add. But we'll have to look at that only

34:30once we've actually delivered the results on the uh complimentary projects. Cuz for me, I've been in business for about close to a decade and I love delivering results, but I've also seen businesses that promise the world to their clients and then underdel. And then there's that kind of they they they and look, sometimes they underdel not because they're not working hard or not

34:53that they haven't got the right intention, but because they've just, you know, they ate with their eyes instead of their stomach and they kind of took off more than they could. So that's what I'm focusing on. you know, the ability to come into the US, provide top-notch service and a prime brokerage solution that they can engage with right away and then provide complimentary services that

35:13just makes them, you know, bit more welcomed into the crypto ecosystem without having to necessarily engage with three or four crypto companies. They can just have the one-stop shop with Stormre. Yeah, definitely well said. And sometimes it's out of your hands as well. you know, you're working with legislators or, you know, the the regulators to like get that license. Um,

35:37so it's and it's like, you know, you can only move as fast as a bureaucracy, but I think the administration is pretty gung-ho on on it now. So, I'm looking forward to seeing it. Uh, Stormwork expand more. What is the best way for people to get involved? you know, check see if where they're at is available and follow along if it's not available yet to be able to start using the platform

35:59right away. Awesome question. So, just go to storm.com and then there's a contact us section. Um, you can book in a call. There's no cost associated with that. You can uh email us at info@storm.com and drop in an inquiry if you prefer written uh format. And then there's also like a a contact form where you can put in an inquiry and request a call back. So, there's a myriad of ways

36:23you can get in contact with us on the contact page. Um, you can also email me directly, which is my name.com. So, bisher storm.com if you have direct questions for me or if you're maybe a local player in the cryptocurrency market and you want to collaborate or you want to integrate your exchange solution into our platform as well because we do face a lot of exchanges.

36:44So, I'm open to those conversations as well. So, yeah, that's that's the primary way of getting a hold of us. I am also chronically online on WhatsApp and Telegram as everybody else in the cryptocurrency market is. Um so my telegram handle is my name uh my last name. So at bisher_cadera you can find me there. So yeah many ways you can get in contact with me directly and then you

37:08know I promise to get back to you as soon as I can. But if you want to contact the business and have my team look after you storm.com go to contact us on the menu bar and you're good to go. That's really nice. I I appreciate having the ability to call somebody, you know, and it's like these huge companies, Google, Facebook, uh if you have an issue, there's no such thing as

37:30like making a call. There's not there's not even there's not even a chat. It's like you're stuck on your own. So, any any way where you can actually speak to humans is amazing. So, I really appreciate what you and the team are doing at Stormreak and um uh I'm excited for you uh in the Vegas conferencing and expanding into America. I'm going to leave the link to the platform and the

37:53contact page um and other socials, everything else in the show notes below. I appreciate your insights into prime brokerages versus crypto exchanges and those advantages and I'm looking forward to seeing that that Mastercard, the lending, all those other updates. Um, heads down building. Um, and so keep up the great work, Bisher. And thank you so much for taking the time. Thanks for

38:16having me on, brother. It was an awesome time. Thank you so much.