Rupert Barksfield on DeFi insurance for Solana at Amulet Protocol

0:01i'm ashton addison from block west capital for investmentpitch media and the cryptocoin show and today on blockchain interviews we have rupert barksfield the project lead of amulet rupert welcome to the show and thank you for taking the time uh dude thank you very much for uh having me here it's uh it's a pleasure to be on the show you're very welcome let's dive into all

0:21things defy insurance i think insurance is really important especially uh in the wild west of crypto and things are innovating so quickly and things break easily when when there's a lot of innovation going on and insurance is one of those things that i think is absolutely necessary to protect not just uh investors projects really at all parties um so with that said i'd

0:44love to dive into what you and your team are working on let's kick off the conversation with uh you know just a high level overview of amulet and some of those solutions and then we'll dive into the details sure oh um well yeah once again thanks very much for having me um so amulet we're on the surface we're a defy insurance platform um so you know we're

1:04much like a lot of the other players out there in fact in the way that we are providing insurance but our our key difference to everybody else is the way that we protect stake is capital so uh insurance in in fact pretty much all insurance not just defy is built in the same way you've got a two-sided marketplace you've got stakers on one side and people who take out

1:26insurance policies on the other and when there's a claim the payment for that claim comes from that state capital now that was designed around 300 years ago at the the dawn of insurance and it hasn't really changed you know we've gone on chain but we haven't actually changed model what amulet looks to do is to uh protect our stakers capital in a little bit

1:50by the way what we believe and we use uh yields to pay our claims rather than uh state capital we generate a yield by utilizing proof-of-stake chains like solana and other rust-based chains in order to create a yield and it's that yield that we use to pay out our claims very interesting great intro and let me just reiterate that so i can get a better understanding so obviously if

2:18there is an insurance claim from somebody they're getting a pile of money from somewhere that's coming from the pot that's where the stakers are and then so if you're putting your funds into the pot as uh the funder of the insurance uh protocol then from what i understand with what you're saying the proof of stake you're you're not actually losing that original

2:42principle and you're paying out through the yields yeah correct correct now it's a little bit more complicated under the hood but the top level um uh lion is yeah your your state capital is protected essentially and uh and so we we run a you know a very different model to those existing d5 platforms out there much like you know kind of nexus mutual who i've done i want to you know put for

3:07the record i've done an incredible job in terms of you know building our industry from scratch but actually you know we've got other opportunities and models to use now and that's what i mean that's out there to do definitely and now i want to dive into this multi-parties because there's there's multiple sides of this uh there's going to be people that are

3:28investing into uh protocols and new projects and and looking for insurance and also just the companies themselves uh to help protect their smart contracts and defy if there are any vulnerabilities now can you talk about what kind of defy protocols this would apply to does it apply to sort of all uh investment parts yeah so what yes i know we have to vet uh the the protocol um or

3:57product should i say that we want to ensure and one of the things that we're uh we're doing so you've probably come across smart contracts uh risk insurance before uh and that's one of the products we do uh so for example if you were to uh put your capital and stake it into a uh a platform like marinade let's say uh we would be able to insure your funds uh

4:22on there if we had uh vetted their smart contracts and uh check that they were all you know fully safe so 12 billion dollars was stolen through uh fraud and smart contract hacking uh last year and a number of other different method methods and that's what really principally what we we're here to to kind of protect against or at least protect your initial

4:42principle against that um but we want to take it another step further because we're built on solana we are able to do very much faster transactions a very much time volume of transactions which gives us a a a new opportunity to break into and we really believe that game fight is actually a huge area for us to uh to you know to

5:09open up our wings so to speak so one of the things that is is coming through on game five is obviously played to earn but with play to earn there's always a an element of loss as well and with that element of loss that's where we come in to protect the the the downside so let's say you're in a game and you can buy a weapon to uh level up inside the game but if you

5:34die you lose that weapon that's what we want to ensure against so again we'll be tapping into the games to allow users to do it directly inside the game wow very cool and i do i like that um you know back in the day playing video games uh you know not now more than ever really you're actually investing not just your time but your capital in play to earn to

5:57be able to earn and of course there is when you're earning there's also that chance of loss as you're right um and with game fight i feel like we're very early on because a lot of the games haven't really reached maturity or even anywhere close to mainstream uh and but i feel like that is where we're going and so that sounds like a great direction for amulet to be to be

6:16protecting players and everybody in that ecosystem and now speaking of early on where exactly is is amulet with uh the products that you have right now uh well you you have caught us at a very opportune uh uh time ashton uh the so we're actually announcing the project this week which i'm very excited about uh so i'm not sure exactly when the podcast goes out but the the um

6:40or the video but yeah this week uh being what week are we on we're on monday the 18th of april right now is when uh we are going to be uh announcing it finally and then in june the product actually uh comes out so we're already there we've built in fact we've written about 225 000 lines of code already uh so we've been well underway with this project for some time

7:06um but we'll uh yeah but we're releasing it out in june to um to everybody and we're you know our process or our phase right now is really engaging with our community engaging with people who want to support us and support the project and and you know make crypto and web 3 a little bit safer definitely definitely and now when you're going to be working like let's

7:28say for example with these game fight platforms you know it's possible to partner with the platform but is it is it also a partnership with the individual players you know for example you know you can partner with car companies but i get to choose if i'm going to pay for a premium for my specific car to have insurance on it are people individuals paying into

7:49amulet to have the protection well again it's another interesting question it really depends on the the pun the partnership with the brand or the product or the protocol uh so we've been approached by a number of protocols who want to blanket uh provide insurance for everybody that's using their protocol but equally there's a lot of um uh you know folks out there and protocols

8:14out there that really want to put the hands in directly into the user now we work in both ways but for us it's we're totally agnostic to that we are truly defined and so far that uh we can operate with anyone anywhere but it's a you know the decision kind of comes down to how it's integrated so if you're coming to us on our site and purchasing insurance

8:35there obviously that contract is direct with you um even you know if we're doing it inside a game or a protocol the the contract is directly with you but it's just a decision about whether or not the the cost and the premium is covered by the the the protocol or not and we're seeing this big shift actually where protocols do really want to provide a

8:59lot more coverage for their for their users and that's where we obviously aim to be and and you know kind of suck up a lot more of that definitely and you mentioned that the protocol is being built on on solana i'm curious if it is just the the technology that's superior for for insurance or is it to do with this proof of stake in having the yields you know why is solana

9:21the best technology for amulet yeah so it's definitely the latter uh i you know when it comes down to the technology you know obviously salon has a higher uh throughput than uh ethereum and it's much lower on transaction fees so that helps us but they're not the only people out there doing that right and we're aware of a lot of the other uh other chains when it comes to a programming

9:44language though we really do like the uh the rust language yeah it gives us a lot more control and a lot more ability to do what we need to do and uh it has complicated some things to a certain extent but it's not a um uh it it's not been as kind of oversimplified to in certain areas um and yeah i want to stress look i'm not a developer and in this i just listen to

10:08what my cto tells me and and um yeah we also like the support we get from the solana ecosystem so that that certainly helps us um you know grow as a as a business definitely yeah and i have seen the ecosystem seems like it's growing uh and catching up to where ethereum is and they sort of have that network effect so there's definitely a lot of potential

10:32with the ecosystem and i think that's the right choice for your team and now i'm curious as well with uh the stakers and you know with the multi-party uh system with amulet is there also uh governance or some kind of tokenization inside of the amulet ecosystem to bring sustainability uh and community into the product yeah 100 so being a d5 product and and

11:02you know as well essentially being a dow we want to um engage our community to really take control of the product um and the stage in which we're we're working at is you know obviously we're developing it we're releasing it out there we want people to use it we want that feedback to come back into us into the community and also the links of you know just kind

11:24of like where do you want to see this being used a lot more and you know allow our community to take ownership of the platform and kind of take it further forward so yeah we're releasing it in june without a token initially but the intention is fully to launch a token um probably around you know q3 uh this year my my my expectation would be but uh it's about getting traction to

11:52the product you know we've seen so many times you know especially i've been in the industry since 2016. so i uh i've seen the ico boom and all these you know tokens have just launched with no underpinning at all um i think we're over that hill now i think you now got to have a working product and show um that you're serious about what you're doing in order to build um gravitation

12:18and um and the connection with your community and uh and only then can you say look now we want you to be involved now we want you to be the uh the governors of this this platform we've given you the framework you've told us what you want it to be and let's let's do this all together and that's that's our plan definitely and i think that's a great uh

12:40way of approaching it because you're building a foundation and sort of you know having the core team build out something amazing and then gradually handing it over uh to to the community and i'm curious on some of the strategies that your team is going to use to encourage the growth of the community i'm guessing you know on the staker side you mentioned

13:03there's going to be you know yields there if is it that if people are deciding to put their capital into the pot um they're earning yield and that's sort of helping grow the ambulance community well i mean there's definitely an element of that i don't think that that is the be all and and end all of it i think yeah you can almost look at our our communities

13:26set up as almost three different groups and i i think there's going to be crossover but i don't i think they're going to be quite distinct in there in the majority which whereby you've got people league on a stake you've got people who are gonna be taking out uh policies and i think there's gonna be a large group of people who want to govern and look after

13:44the platform i mean so often have we seen governance tokens sold out on a platform and actually very little engagement on voting and and um uh and making the decisions and so that's why we want those people to be um kind of empowered a little bit more those who want to govern who want to um to really to have a say in what we do and how we you know progress and and

14:08even you know when it comes down to the team right like who should be working on this you know who should have the the um the ability to say yes that that's worthy of a claim or it's not i think that's really important for you know the the the community and the government to be brought into all aspects uh of of this and um because otherwise you're not

14:31truly a d5 project and um and that's where we want to we want to get to well i'm looking forward to seeing how it grows and now you know crypto moves really fast but i want to fast forward a little bit and get your you know ideal vision on you know one year from today where do you see amulet uh in the industry with the partners and with the community

14:54yeah so it's uh it's another good question i um i have been planning this out in my own uh my own decks my own uh targets so the way i i see it one year from uh from today i would like us to have a fully launched token i'd like us to have a very engaged community upwards of 20 000 uh users and i would like to be operating on about 150 or so different protocols with

15:2230 plus being api driven whereby users don't have to come to us they we go to them and and when they you know we're at the point of purchase on you know on ftx we're at the point of purchasing your uh and your phantom wallet or your um and the you know we're truly a regular part of uh users interactions you know they stake on a platform they

15:49go yep i'm gonna take out some insurance on this click take out amulet insurance boom and you're done and the um that's where i i want to be but you know equally as important to those numbers and those metrics is the uh is really the trust and i want uh to be able to build trust with our community and i want to um to allow people to to have a different option and not to

16:15worry about even whether or not the insurance that they're taking out is going to be going to be paid it's got to be locked it's got to be honest and and clear and you know people have got to be able to have that trust in you from day one and that's yeah again another big core value of mine to build up very well said and looking forward to to seeing that and those are some great

16:38numbers of projecting into next year um but uh there's a lot to do before then and and as you mentioned part of the launch and the announcement is this week uh what can people expect and how can they learn more about you know what's coming out in the very near future here sure so uh we're we're going to be announcing on um uh twitter initially or at amulet protocol uh but

17:04please do you know follow us on on twitter uh go over to the website uh amulet.org and uh you know sign up for the newsletter there and join the discord as well discord is really we're gonna keep our main community uh that's where the main chat is going to to be twitter and telegram are going to be more kind of uh broadcast uh for us unless our community demands

17:24otherwise and um yeah we're going to be um uh talking a lot to people i want to i want to meet people for those who are most interested in uh in securing worldwide um you have the opportunity to influence us really early on so please yeah reach out if this is of interest and uh yeah join the community and let us know your thoughts sounds great rupert i will leave all

17:48those links in the discord as well in the description box below for the viewers all the best with you know integrating insurance uh into a game fight specifically and all of the other kinds of products and protocols that you mentioned i'm really looking forward to just seeing how this evolves in the next year and and beyond because uh it's very early on as

18:09you mentioned and i feel like the infinite potential for game fight at least gamers to get involved with blockchain and understand uh how these innovations work and also you know be able to have own their own assets and and and own their own information uh and have it backed by insurance as well so very exciting thank you so much for taking the time to come

18:30on the show i really do appreciate it and let's follow up in the near future thanks ashton and thanks to everybody else who who watched and listened you