Patrick Carney on making token launches safer with CoinTerminal

0:00I'm Ashen Addison from the Cryptocoin Show and today on Blockchain Interviews we have Pat Kerry, partner and CTO of Coin Terminal. Patrick, welcome to the show and thanks for taking the time. >> Thank you very much, Ashton. >> Yeah, excited to dive into Coin Terminal. How can we have more successful launches in in crypto and helping companies with a launchpad get

0:24launched successfully and also helping people and even retail investors get involved early on before it's listed on a major exchange hopefully getting a better deal and finding future unicorns when they're at the beginning. Uh I would love to start off our conversation with a high level on what you and the team have been building at Coin Terminal and what makes it so special and then we

0:45can dive into all those topics. >> Yeah. Uh just again thanks for having me on. So we are the world's only tokenless launchpad. We're a tier one launchpad in the space. Um we've been around for around just over a year now. We pretty much focus on letting people into early stage crypto ventures, predominantly crypto tokens, and we focus on a kind of seamless experience.

1:15We really differentiate ourselves because we don't require any kind of experience or any kind of purchasing of tokens to access our pad. There's no kind of barriers to entry. The only thing you kind of need is a wallet and KYC. And that's about to change actually in a couple of months time. >> Um we were founded um by Hatush Shake. So he's my partner on the launchpad. So

1:41he was co-founder of Dow Maker. Dow maker is really prominent name in the space at the time and still now one of the biggest launchpads in the world. So he founded uh Coin Terminal and myself I joined as CTO and partner almost a year ago now although it seems a lot longer. Yeah, >> definitely. Yeah, a lot can happen in a year in crypto, especially what we've

2:04seen with Bitcoin and Ethereum rising and new retail interest. And that's like the the floodgates that get them into, hey, this is like a world of like I could be a a VC getting into projects early stage as a retail investor. Before uh blockchain, that really wasn't possible. There were so many barriers to entry. Um, and I'd love to talk about that a little bit more. you mentioned

2:28there lowering the barriers to entry for people that aren't technical and also tokenless. Uh from what I understand, you know, for example, Binance Launchpad, you have to have Binance coin staked or a certain amount of capital in the the the Launchpad's token or something of collateral to get involved. Can you talk about that a little bit more in in the tokenless side and

2:53lowering the barriers to entry for for small fish? Absolutely. So if we take a step back and look at the first kind of generation of launchpads that came out, a lot of them really required a fair amount of commitment or knowledge up front to uh first of all create an account and gain access to a sale. Even now this was probably back launchpads really took off

3:17in a previous bull run around 2021 and then the traditional model was you would acquire some tokens which took a fair amount of knowledge already up front and once you'd acquired those tokens you would stake them or do hold them in your wallet and that would give you some kind of chance of getting in on the sale although often many people missed out.

3:37it's kind of already a huge barrier to entry, right? If you don't really know much about crypto, even if you're kind of Bitcoin maxi or you've got a fair knowledge of Ethereum, the kind of secondary market or the kind of smaller low cap coins, it's quite hard to get involved with them and understand how to get involved with these IDOs. So already putting a burden of having a token there

3:59in your wallet or acquiring those tokens is going to put a lot of people off. So we kind of came about after my co-founder moved from DMaker. He really wanted to saw a problem of making it frictionless. So absolutely no tokens, no kind of prior knowledge. >> Um and that's what we're doing on the launchpad at the moment today. >> Mhm. That's really nice. And I think

4:24obviously there's a barrier to entry and it's nice for the launchpad if everyone's buying their token. But from what I understood, one of the reasons behind that was that so that often these launches, you know, there's high demand because it could be the next unicorn and they have a small allocation normally in their in their preede round. So not everybody can contribute and having uh a

4:48amount of tokens that you need sort of has that financial barrier so that it's not overcrowded in in the sale. um how does that work with with coin terminal in ensuring sort of fair distribution and everybody can get in or there's a limit? >> Ashton, it's a very good point that tokens were kind of gating or a commitment up front uh let's say where they really wanted people to buy into

5:13the launchpad and buy into the community. So it was a barrier for that kind of commitment uh for people and then you would typically tear it where if you had more tokens you had a better chance to get into sales. Um there were issues around that in terms of allowing people in with more tokens or more capital. Fair enough. They're putting more into the system but also you had

5:36issues with smaller uh investors or let's say smaller speculators not being able to get in there. Um and then over time you know the kind of demand on the launch pads in this current phase is a lot lower right as well. So those kind of token gated pads is kind of it's not unnecessary but a lot of people view them as why do I have to buy tokens to then get into a sale that is not like

6:03the previous bon ball run. It's a lot um likely not to get your ex etc. So we so getting back to your original question, how do we make it fair? We kind of have a lottery system. So first of all, we have a limited fixed set of tickets >> and then we have a smaller ticket size because we really want to focus on as many people getting into these sales as

6:26possible. And then we kind of have this registration period where people commit to accessing our sales. And then after the registration period, if we've gone an over subscription, we need too many people in, we have a kind of fair lottery system where we randomly select people. Um, and that kind of lottery system, it gives it's a little bit more of a fun element to it, but it also

6:49gives everyone a chance to participate in these sales. >> Definitely. And not having that token barrier is nice for, you know, web two crowd potentially. But do you foresee interest in, for example, people that aren't even in crypto that maybe they want to do investing in early stage companies, um, but maybe they've, you know, maybe they have Bitcoin and

7:13Ethereum, maybe they've never had a wallet. Do you anticipate more people to potentially get involved in Launchpads as their first entrance into crypto? >> It's a really good question. Um, I think that depends on how they find you in the first place. A lot of users typically find a launchpad because they get involved with the higher capsu chips first and then they work their way

7:41down into more speculative sales to really capture those people from the start. It depends on how you're building your product and your pad technically and as a product, right? Um, so you've really got to in first of all there's an educational journey there. You can't overwhelm them, but you got to teach them a little bit about what crypto is, right? So, even if you build out the

8:02infrastructure or product where anyone can create an account and participate, they at least need to know a little bit about the benefits of crypto, what they're getting involved with. Uh, so that's the kind of um educational side. Then there's the product side and how you going to let them in with no kind of wallet or no ability to set a wallet up that they've had prior experience to.

8:22and you're getting a lot of really good wallet providers and infra companies setting up now that offer these kind of social wallets as an entry in there as well. So that's what we're evaluating and building at the moment. And then you've got the issue of how do you get those users in, right? Where they going to come from and how they're going to find you. So being this is where we

8:41switch back to web two mode, right? As a company, you really need to be on your game in terms of marketing, PR and also SEO funnels, advertisement funnels. really drive those users in and really have an experience where you can really fine tune and measure how you're going to capture that audience. Uh that's what we've been going on that kind of journey

9:02for the last few months as a pad and you're going to see some exciting stuff coming out um shortly. >> Looking forward to it. I feel like one of the best ways to get new people involved and to get interest in launchpads is to have great projects to actually invest in. you know, if this if there's a high chance that, you know, this is a future unicorn, everyone's

9:23going to want to invest. How does Coin Terminal, you know, source good projects and qualify them to ensure that they're high quality to launch on the platform? >> Yep, great question. The sourcing side, we have really strong BDPM team. So those are the individuals that are really well networked in the space really understand uh the past and the history of what's made a successful sale

9:49and also understand the current trends and narratives that feeding in because the industry is very much built on yes utility but a large portion of it is also hype marketing and being on a trend. So having BDS that are well networked going to these kind of events understanding past successes and what made them great projects that really helps them kind of pick out the upcoming

10:12ones as well. In addition to that we kind of building out a huge kind of traditional affiliate network that we've yet to launch that's not just going to let these be our own BD team pull in these kind of projects but allow anyone to become a BD in their own right and profit to the upside as well. uh this is really going to allow affiliates to come in through our BDS and channel a larger

10:36funnel of projects in. So that's how we really plan on expanding the kind of sourcing of deal flow. Um in terms of selection, you know, I'm CTO and partner. It's not my area of expertise, but I do have my ear to the ground with what goes on in a company. We really focus on now having a product that is built out or a well mapped out product up front. You know, the previous cycle

10:59you could flip a white paper and gain some interest. Now, there's a much higher expectation. There has to be something of substance there. >> And potentially a past history of success either in web two or web three as well uh plays a huge part. Um finally, there's a couple of different there there's two types of kind of deal that can come in. There's the kind of VC

11:21deals that are really well backed and financed but have a much higher valuation. And then you have the kind of more let's say indie kind of projects or less slightly less backed but a potentially good project or product and they are much lower cap and so they have much higher potential >> for performing but potentially slightly riskier. So there's those two kind of

11:43things you've got to take into consideration as well. >> Yeah. No, that's a great point and I think both have value both of those types of projects and uh there's definitely interest in both. So, it's nice to have indie projects, but it's also nice to see the lead investor is Coinbase Venturers or Binance. Um, because then you you feel it's not guaranteed, but you feel like, you know,

12:06if they're investing, it must be good. It must be a high chance of success. >> Um, another question is >> and and they've done their due diligence as well, right? sort of really uh vetted the team uh on a lot much higher level uh especially Coinbase um than a lot of other companies out there. So yeah, >> definitely and you're right about flipping a white paper. I feel like with

12:30AI, even non-technical people can at least build a beta application nowadays um and some kind of working early model that um you know if they're going to raise capital at least put in some effort to try and use all the tools you have available to to make the first versions >> right AI is paying playing playing a huge part but so so there's a real benefit in terms of if you've got a

12:57vegan and you don't have the necess necessary tech team or even marketing team. It can really assist you there, but it's it's not a kind of silver bullet to anyone coming into the industry. It can al often distort, right? So, if you don't know what you're vetting when these LLMs pop something out as a suggestion. So, we've seen that with a lot of people

13:18playing, you can just put a similar question into chat GBT and you'll see a similar white paper pop out there. So, there's benefits and there's downsides as well. Yeah, >> definitely. Um, with, you know, AI and you being the CTO, you've probably had some experience with it. Is there a a play where AI helps build and support out Coin Terminal? >> I think there definitely is. I mean we

13:45uh so I I've 25 years I've been in the software industry as a developer architect uh CTO now and I was I'm old enough to have seen AI when it was around 20 years ago there were models out there right but not as accessible as now right not through a web app not as instant took a lot of work just to get them going and research um now I think it's got a huge

14:11part to play in terms of deal sourcing Um so in terms of trend spotting and data analysis especially on the web even to the point of analyzing tokens and the performance and their uptake and throughput um and then on top of that in terms of product development especially as well I think AI has a great future with fusing with blockchain and really pushing that decentralized uh not just

14:38narrative but decentralized tech uh and building more fairer uh more datadriven systems um and even evolving tech based on blockchain as well. So at the moment we've got this kind of AI sat in the cloud at the moment and it's kind of touching on chains through these RPCs or touching on chains through these kind of bridge integrations. But I do foresee the next

15:00uh generation of blockchains having AI actually built in uh to the actual nodes and actual infrastructure of the chain as well and providing prompts. uh let's just say you know you have these me protections right now in the future you could have AI that plays that part and already solves that problem >> uh and and many other things right so it's kind of decentralized layer with AI

15:24infused into it um I need to write this down as a white paper actually because it's not a bad idea but that's how I see them uh you know working together in the future >> yeah there's a lot of promise and I think the notion of AI I merging with blockchain has been around now since almost >> when chatbt first came out and was getting millions of users. That

15:47narrative came out, but the functionality was lagging behind and I feel like now uh in in the second half of this year, it's starting to catch up and we're seeing aic finance AI agents. You've probably seen some roll through the coin terminal launchpad. Um you know, a lot of projects are infusing AI and hopefully adding value with AI as well. Yeah, I I think we're still at that

16:10point where I I've looked at quite a few AI um SDKs and platforms out there, especially decentralized ones. We're still at that point where people are trying to make sense of it and work out how to privatize data, how to really make these AI agents perform well on the chain. uh we are not there yet at the moment but just the fact that people are starting to build these things and get

16:33involved and think about how AI agents can play in a decentralized way with blockchain >> uh we're in the early stages of it still at the moment right it's a bit like the internet back in the naughties >> I feel like we're still in the early stages of AI coupling with blockchain at the moment >> definitely and with coin terminals launches where you know obviously having

16:57successful launch ES in the past would help the the the launchpad itself in that you you obviously you're sourcing great deals, but where exactly is it at with you know um successful launches or how many launches are happening uh at the moment? >> So the market is dependent on how many launches we push out, but we're probably pushing out a couple a week. uh we go

17:21through much busier times where we launch in 20 I think it was back in January February time we the market was hotter for launches back then so we pushed more out at the moment it's a slightly slower pace in terms of where we are in the performance >> it's hugely narrative driven it's huge based on projects we pick >> at the moment the IDO market's very very

17:45slow I would say in general uh especially the purchasing power and people interested in buying after TGE. It's massively slowed down now, which is putting a >> more of a kind of microscope over the quality of the project, but also I think people are trying to find a next play or the next narratives uh to capture people's imaginations. And another dynamic at play here is that

18:08people are getting more educated in terms of kind of ideas and getting in early, right? So you have people that want to get in early and and kind of take a chance, but you also have people that are wary that if they're not getting in there early and it's launched on an exchange, there's a waiting period often where people won't buy in and FOMO in, it's got a much more educated

18:27audience. Um, how we're working around that is we're offering more kind of risk-free launches. So we have two types of launches. We have the non-refundables that tend to be lower valuation, right, and lower ticket sizes. And then we have these refundable sales which offer complete protection right in terms of you can go in risk-free uh see how they perform and only after

18:51TGE can you decide if you want to collect your tokens or not. So this is a really good novel way of protecting the community while allowing them to kind of speculate uh in a risk-free sense. Yeah >> that's really interesting. Um I I don't think that's possible in in traditional private investing. You know, usually if you ask your capital back from the

19:12founders, uh they'd say, "Well, it's it's in the bank now." >> Yeah, exactly. I mean, um I think you'd find it hard. You might have to drive around to the house or and have a word with them. Uh I don't know how that would work. I mean, you do have traditional financial structures that allow you to kind of put equity in and then get it back via a bond, but they're

19:31much less common. But this is way more decentralized, right? So people are pretty much buying in, but within I think we run them and then we allow a 24-hour window and then people are immediately refunded. So you got a 24-hour turnaround time. You can't imagine going to a company and saying, "Hey, can you just send back my uh investment within 24 hours, right? So

19:53>> um yeah. >> Yeah, that's the beauty of decentralization and and these kinds of platforms." So that's actually a really nice uh attraction for for the investors and and the customers. So, um, one other question was about the, um, the the timeline for what's coming up. I know you mentioned about bringing more web 2, uh, friendliness. Um, what else do you guys have in store for, you

20:20know, obviously there's a lot to do with the market? I feel like the market's heating up actually for for Idos and smaller cap launches as you know right now it seems like Bitcoin and Ethereum have stolen the show as liquid investments but that always seems to trickle down into smaller projects and narratives. So what do you guys have in store as the market hopefully heats up

20:44in Q4 of of this year? >> Yeah, Ashton, you're right to point out that you kind of get a trickle down effect. I think alts need to still go on a bit of a juicier run before people start rotating profits. I think alts had been on such a a horrible run versus BTC ratio wise have got a fair amount to catch up. I mean and that's pretty much based on this kind of bull run being

21:08very institutionally driven >> and you know obviously the institutions aren't going to flip out into the kind of crazy side of the market through an ETF. So I still think the alts need to run a bit but the ideal market will have its kind of heyday. Normally it's very much into a later more maturer side of the uh market. So we maybe a couple of months out. Um in terms of what we are

21:32building though we're kind of building throughout this bear alt bear. We've been building a lot of info in terms of not just refundables but we coming up with a very kind of uh creative way of allowing people to uh even participate and stay liquid. Uh I won't go beyond that but it's going to allow uh not just people who are kind of already very savvy with investment but people from

21:56outside the space to kind of come in risk-f free participate and be liquid instantly. And this is a really novel way because >> at the moment a lot of the even if you have a great site that pulls in a large web two funnel of users, they still need to get those stables. And yes, they could use a credit card on ramp or whatever you build there, but it's a

22:17fair amount of risk for the average person, $250 some of these ticket size or above. A lot of people don't have that liquid. So, can you get them in and get enough of a commitment where they're a user, but then there's some kind of risk-free element? That's what we're really working on as an aside. And outside of that, we've just kicked off a lottery that is constantly evolving. So,

22:41not only can you participate, you've got a great chance of winning a huge cash prize monthly. So, we gave away $10,000 worth of prizes, I believe it was. Um, one of them flew over to the coin offices in Dubai and actually got the check. U because, you know, this space, if you give out prizes, people are always skeptical. did they get delivered etc. So um you know he got it delivered

23:05in a more centralized fashion ironically to bring in more trust. So the lottery is another thing that we are you know working on at the moment >> that's really cool and if I want to check out the the current launches that are upcoming get involved with them get started and get an allocation what is the easiest way to get started? come into the launchpad. Uh create an

23:31account. At the moment, you do have to create your own wallet. So, there's a little bit of a journey there. Uh but once you've got your wallet created, search for one of our refundable sales, one of the more risk-free ones. Um and just register uh KYC register. You've got a chance then to win a spot on one of these sales and uh participate risk-f free. Um so, it's as easy as that.

23:56>> It's very cool, Patrick. I appreciate what Corn Terminal is doing in and making it more liquid, less risk, and more opportunities for early stage projects and wishing you and the team all the best as it continues to grow and hope the market is in your favor and everyone's favor for early stage investors and early stage projects that we can get more great projects funded to

24:19help grow uh the decentralized uh blockchain industry and decentralized applications. Uh I I'm going to leave a link to uh the Coin Terminal platform uh and the socials as well in the show notes below. I really appreciate your time and would love to follow up again in the near future. >> Absolutely. It's been a pleasure, Ashton. Uh take care and long live the

24:40current Boron, however long it lasts. So, >> all right. Thanks. Cheers. >> Thank you.