Roxom is building a Bitcoin-native trading platform

0:00I'm Ashen Addison from the Cryptocoin Show and today on blockchain interviews we have Bourja Martell Seward co-founder and CEO of Roxom here to talk about Bitcoin capital markets denominating the markets in Bitcoin instead of dollars and why that's the future and uh everything more with regards to treasury companies uh stocks uh denominating them in bitcoin and uh

0:26it's the future so I think it's coming quicker than we than we think and I know you and your team at Roxom have been working on this and it's right around the corner. Boura, thank you so much for taking the time. >> Hey Ashton, thank you for for having me here and uh we're we're very excited to chat with you all about Bitcoin Capital Markets, what does this mean and and so

0:47on because as you said um it's this is new. um this wasn't here before uh and we just feel like like it's a natural step uh for for Bitcoin. So now thank you for for having us and and looking forward to diving deep into what all of this means. >> Definitely. Um and you know there's this saying stacking sats and I think people that have been around Bitcoin for a long

1:15time they sort of denominate their their wealth in in Bitcoin. Um, and they understand that if they're holding dollars, the inflation is depreciating them over and over again. And um, it's hard to value your wealth in dollars when the dollars keep getting worth less every day. It only makes sense to start valuing it in the greatest returning asset of all time so far, Bitcoin. But

1:40when it comes to denomin denominating the entire stock market in Bitcoin, uh that's a that's another story that I feel like traditional stock market uh investors are going to have to get used to because it's probably going to start happening. Um maybe you can sort of give a high level on what are Bitcoin capital markets and why should the market be denominated in Bitcoin and then we can

2:02dive into all those details. >> Yeah, of course. So um to explain what capital markets are Ashton like the the way we like to put it is like doing is by doing a a historical analysis and what's the historical analysis we do well it's quite simple actually um you've had um we had civilization had uh the first uh real capital markets well I mean you you could say we had ant for

2:28commodities but the first um stocks were actually listed in the Amsterdam stock exchange this happened around the 1600s and basically what's going on was that you had the first LLC, the first company uh the Dutch East India Company who would do like explorations around um around uh the Indas and and the Indies and so on back then and uh they went so

2:53they went public and they got uh their shares were traded at the Amsterdam exchange. Something important to consider is that the strong currency at the time was um the gilder, the Dutch Gilder. Then what happens is that um uh the British pound uh like the UK um was gaining a lot of traction, a lot of power and eventually not only the UK became the strongest country in the

3:18world, but al also the British pound became the strongest currency of the world. And with that um we had uh let's say the boom of the London stock exchange and the and the Brit what they call the city of London and the city of London is like this global capital markets hub at the time. We also need to consider that the UK had all of their colonies and so on. So really all the

3:39financial world all the money everything was flowing into London. Then uh in the 21 in the 20th century sorry um you had uh the Breton Woods agreement where uh the dollar was established as the um let's say as a global settlement currency of the world. uh and with this uh the dollar became um the uh strongest currency uh in the entire world and only

4:06then the New York Stock Exchange became the uh global financial powerhouse of the world. So what we see is that um what history is showing us is that basically um the strongest capital markets grow within the strongest currency. So >> the way we that's the understanding that we do and the way we like to see it another way we like to talk about it is

4:33like every currency in the world has its own capital markets. Uh even we from Argentina we have the Bimma which is like our Argentine New York stock exchange. Uh it's a $60 billion market. So uh even the the the weakest currencies in the world have their own capital market. So really for us it doesn't make sense that uh bitcoin which is one of the strongest currencies in

4:56the entire planet um if you measure uh bitcoin by m0 currencies by m bitcoin is the second uh largest monetary base in the world and if you measure by m2 bitcoin is the eighth largest currency by uh monetary base. So really uh today at this point uh in a world where even the smallest and weakest currencies uh have uh their own capital markets it doesn't make a lot of sense um that

5:20bitcoin which is one of the biggest and strongest currencies in the world still does not. So we think that this is something inevitable. And what do we now that we have this angle like what do we mean by by capital by bitcoin capital markets? Well, we we actually mean capital markets where you have securities, commodities and all sorts of things all being traded um in this

5:42currency, right? And that's what the capital markets um basically are going to are bringing on top of IPOs uh debt listings um ETFs and everything. But picture everything in Bitcoin. So in the same way that you have IPOs in the US that raise uh uh uh dollars or IPOs in the UK that raise pounds or that you have debt listings and ETFs that track an underlying in pounds, in dollars,

6:10whatever, wherever the market is. Well, picture all of these but in Bitcoin. So, picture companies doing IPOs and raising Bitcoin. Picture companies that have um Bitcoin related business models where they can pay out dividends and uh in Bitcoin. Picture um entities, companies and so on that issue bonds where they are raising Bitcoin maybe because they

6:31have a Bitcoin related uh business model or whatever or they are taking the risk on that or or whatever. So this is what we mean by Bitcoin capital markets and bringing capital markets to Bitcoin has several several um benefits. It has the benefits of enabling um cash repos uh bitcoin repos cash repos where uh investors in the market who are borrowing funds for margin trading and

6:56so on are paying a a yield a very low risk uh yield for the market picture. um stock lending programs that are paying um uh yields and interest rates in Bitcoin. So for I'll give you a very easy example today. You have Tim Cook from Apple for example. So Tim Cook from Apple, he does not get any yield uh from his Apple shares. And why is that? Because if he wants yield um he needs

7:22his shares to be on a stock lending program. Um the thing is that nobody in the market shorts Apple because Apple is usually up and to the right. So because nobody wants to short Apple um there is no demand for Apple shares for for them to being shorted. So there is no yield for these shares. So Tim Cook cannot have any kind of income on his shares.

7:42However, if you look at Apple shares in Bitcoin terms, Apple shares are not a good investment or at least and this is not financial advice but I would never buy Apple shares because in the long term if I buy Apple shares I will have less and less Bitcoin. So actually Apple shares are something that I would like to short right. So if I want to short Apple shares in a bitcoin world then I

8:05am essentially saying that I have a demand for Apple for borrowing Apple shares which essentially creates a market for Apple shares. So some some of the things that these bitcoin capital markets will bring is this yield product where today you have assets that uh where they don't have any intrinsic yield. So for example, Apple Tim Cook today has no yield because nobody wants

8:27to borrow Apple shares so they can sell them. Well, in Bitcoin markets, lots of plenty of people will be interested in shorting Apple. Um, so they'll be interested in uh borrowing Apple shares, which essentially means that they will be paying an interest, a yield uh to Tim Cook because they will be loaning or borrowing the shares from Tim so they can short them. So today, what's the the

8:48the the final conclusion of this? Well, today Tim Cook has no income on his shares. In a Bitcoin world and in Bitcoin capital markets, the market will be interested in borrowing Tim's shares and they will be paying him an interest uh on his shares. So, essentially, Tim Cook is going to have an interest a yield on his shares and it's going to be a bitcoin yield. So this is just an

9:10example of how uh bringing capital markets into Bitcoin is going to um massively benefit uh Bitcoin as a whole because again for example you will have people like Tim Cook who will actually be interested in saying you know what I just have my shares in Bitcoin markets instead of dollar markets because in dollar markets I don't get any uh income whatsoever whereas in if I if I put my

9:34shares on on Bitcoin markets exchanges or broker dealers or whatever um I'll be actually getting an interest and an income on my shares. Right? So, this is just an example of everything that's uh going to play out um in the in the future and how bringing capital markets into Bitcoin is going to create plenty and all sorts of opportunities um not only for Bitcoin but also for

9:59non- Bitcoiners that maybe will generate extra uh income sources and and and and so on, right? So um this is what it means for capital markets and and essentially as a product you'll just be able right to to go on a platform like ours but we believe that we will have plenty of competitors. So, we'll be able to go to different um Bitcoin uh broker dealers, Bitcoin exchanges, and

10:24so on and trade all sorts of assets. Again, existing uh stocks, existing ETFs, uh bonds, commodities, everything that already exists against Bitcoin. And then you'll also be um able to invest in new things that come like Bitcoin APOs, Bitcoin debt listings, Bitcoin ETFs, and and so on. But then the next question is why? Why would we do this, right? and

10:47and which is your second question and the the the answer to that is very very easy. So if you want to make sure that every year you have more and more Bitcoin, should you think of your investments in dollar terms or should you think of your investments in Bitcoin terms? Well, the answer is very easy. It's the same thing as as it happened in Argentina. When in Argentina people got

11:11tired of the Argentine peso, and I'm from Argentina, so I know this very well. Um, when people got tired of the Argentine peso, they didn't start uh uh saying like, "Okay, I will still continue to invest in pesos and think in pesos, but somehow make sure that I have more dollars." No, no, no. The mindset shift was complete. Um, people started thinking in dollars, in looking at

11:34investments in dollars. People stopped looking at the uh uh charts and prices of any investments they had in pesos. They started looking at them in dollars and so on. Because if you want to save in dollars, if you want to accumulate dollars and so on, there is no point in looking at things in pesos. You should be looking at things in dollars. And this is exactly a process that uh

11:54through which we went through in Argentina. And we believe that the world uh will become like this sort of big Argentina, a world where people are thinking in their local currency, dollars, euros, pounds, whatever. But they are actually um saving, thinking and so on in uh Bitcoin. So if you ask an Argentine how much money he makes, he won't tell you in Argentine pesos. He

12:19will tell you in dollars. He you will not cross with an Argentine. Yes, I make like two 2,300,57 pesos, he will be like, I make 2,000 bucks a month. Um, if you ask a person how much savings he has, he won't say I have 10 million pesos. He will say I have like 10 grand. If you ask an Argentine um at what price did he buy uh Apple stock, he will tell you at 100 bucks, he

12:44will not tell you like at 50 pesos, right? Uh and so on and so forth. So, and again, this is something very practical. It's very pragmatical. If you're in Argentina and your goal is to accumulate more dollars, then you have to think in dollars. You cannot think in pesos because you cannot think in pesos. Think of investments in pesos and so on with if you have the goal to accumulate

13:05more dollars. It doesn't make sense. It's very impractical. >> So, for the Bitcoin world, we believe it's exactly the same thing. If you want to accumulate Bitcoin, if you want to have more and more Bitcoin every single year, then you have to think in Bitcoin. Then you have to understand the world in bitcoin. You need to understand that um if you are uh buying one bitcoin worth

13:24of apple shares or you are buying a house worth five bitcoin or whatever, how much bitcoin is that going to be in the future, right? And there is something very important that um this also goes uh very goes um strongly against a very famous um like uh way of living and mindset in Bitcoin which is like the just huddle. Um we do not believe in just huddle. Um and and the

13:54way to say this is like uh for us buying Bitcoin like for us Bitcoin is our base currency. For us Bitcoin is our cash. So just buying Bitcoin means nothing. Like okay, once you have Bitcoin, okay, you have your Bitcoin, but just buying Bitcoin is the equivalent of an Argentine buying US dollars. Congratulations, buddy. Like you just got rid of the of the shitty

14:16currency of the weak currency. But what now, right? Like you won't have the dollars under your mattress just doing nothing. You want to invest your dollars. You want to get a yield on your dollars. you want to buy, invest in different stocks or buy a house or whatever that you feel or you think that is going to increment the value of your dollar stock. So for us, just buying

14:35Bitcoin is the equivalent of an Argentine just buying dollars. Okay, like amazing. You bought you bought Bitcoin. You don't have the weak currency, the melting currency anymore. But what now? Is that it? You're just going to that's all you're going to do? For me, that's the equivalent of having um dollars under the mattress. And u a very easy way to put it which is like

14:54the just hollow way of living is if you bought Bitcoin at $1,000 in 2016 2017 early 2017 and you wrote like it happened to me like um I've been in Bitcoin for since 2011 but I I always give the 2017 example because for me it was like my life changed for three months and then it was the same again. Um because uh I had my Bitcoin stash it went all the way up to $20,000.

15:21I just huddled. I did the hardcore Bitcoiner thing. I just huddled and three months later, I'm back to $3,000. Yeah, I made a 3x when I was like from the $1,000 mark to 20. I was 20x and then I ended up with a 3x. Like amazing, but I was 20x, right? So, uh, the good trade there if I had the crystal ball was exit at 20, reby at three. And what I mean with this is that nobody's

15:49perfect and nobody has a crystal ball and so and so on. But what I mean with this is that just huddle is is not smart >> because in just huddle if you have one bitcoin you will always have one bitcoin. Uh the right way to do it is to think in bitcoin like deploy your capital in bitcoin terms. Understand that maybe sometimes there is a better investment than bitcoin or there is some

16:11way in which you can uh put your bitcoins to work. So, I showed you before we were doing this interview, Robin Hood 200% in Bitcoin in the last uh three years. Um, Palanteer 200% uh in Bitcoin in the last three years. Um, Nvidia 300% in Bitcoin from 2019 to today. So, guess what? It was better to just buy Nvidia in 2019 than buying Bitcoin. How crazy is that? It's insane.

16:36But that's the truth, right? So, um, and then yes, you have plenty of normal of other traditional assets that go down against Bitcoin. And yeah, I'm going to be shorting those, like I'm going to be shorting S&P, for example, um, because it's like it looks like an easy trade. Um, so, but here the whole point is we don't really believe that just huddle

17:01is right. What we believe is that the right thing to do is to think in Bitcoin and understand when things are expensive or cheap in Bitcoin terms because if something is cheap in Bitcoin terms, then we can buy it. It will go up in Bitcoin or if something is expensive in Bitcoin terms and we can um sell that or short that or whatever, right? And we can also accumulate Bitcoin. So, um,

17:25this is >> why we're doing this because we're doing the platform we would love to have because we know that just having Bitcoin is not the most optimal way to increase your Bitcoin portfolio because at the end of the day, all we want to do is just to have more and more Bitcoin. We want to increase our Bitcoin holdings. Me personally, every year I want the

17:46only thing I care about is about having more Bitcoin, right? And I know that the answer is not just having Bitcoin. There is a better way to do it. Um but to do it right, I need to think in Bitcoin. I need to understand the world in Bitcoin. I need to understand how the markets are behaving everything in Bitcoin terms so that I can deploy my Bitcoin um uh in

18:08the right way. So this is uh how we think and with that it's very easy to understand why we're doing all of what we're doing. >> Definitely. Definitely, Bourja. Great detailed explanation. How do you think the accumulation of Bitcoin in these digital asset treasury companies like Micro Strategy, the miners, other public companies accumulating Bitcoin? Do you

18:32see that as a a step towards Bitcoin denominated markets? >> Well, yes, and actually it's already happening actually for us. um Bitcoin Treasury companies was like a blessing because if you look at all of these companies, they only care about stacking more Bitcoin. Um they talk about their Bitcoin yield. They talk about um their uh Bitcoin MNA. Like everything, all the

18:57metrics they have and how they are picturing it, it goes all around Bitcoin. And actually if you ask every single CEO of uh in the Bitcoin treasury space um what they are doing as well is they are tracking the price action of their stock in bitcoin terms because the whole point of of a bitcoin treasury company is to be a good bitcoin investment right. So if I deploy if I

19:18buy one bitcoin worth of shares of strategy metaplanet um smart web blockchain uh capital B um Nakamoto or any of these guys right H100 if I buy any of these stocks then my whole goal my whole purpose is to um have solid and strong Bitcoin returns. What they will tell you is like in either two ways like I either track uh

19:46the price action of my stock in Bitcoin or I want the price of my stock to outpace to outgrow or to grow faster than Bitcoin's price. Right? Which means that you want your stock to be a good Bitcoin investment because if you want to >> uh provide faster and bigger returns than Bitcoin essentially what you're saying is that you want your stock to be a good Bitcoin investment. So, so

20:11honestly our analysis and understanding of um the Bitcoin Treasury uh company, Mania, Fever, whatever you want to name it, is that this is the official first wave of um the so-called Bitcoin stocks. You could argue that you had minor before, which is true, but for us, this is like some miners were a fiat yield play and so on. It's few the miners that

20:37actually intended to accumulate as much bitcoin as possible. Uh actually many of the miners around the world used to sell their bitcoin to pay for the for their electricity instead of using fiat. Um right. So for us the bitcoin treasury companies are the first wave of bitcoin stocks and bitcoin capital markets. So we're literally witnessing history. So I

20:58compare micro strategy to the Dutch East India company. Right. So Distinia company the first uh public company of the world um kickstarting uh capital markets in the world where well strategy is the company of the bitcoin industry of the bitcoin capital markets and strategy has kickstarted um uh that the is the first bitcoin uh true bitcoin stock in in this new uh bitcoin capital

21:26market. So again, I think that treasury companies are um the crystallization, the finer crystallization and and and making a sense out of everything that we're doing. >> Yeah. No, it I completely agree and it makes sense. Why invest in anything? Say you have one Bitcoin, why invest in anything that say it's a great return. You did 10x, but you end up with half a

21:49Bitcoin versus just holding Bitcoin uh and making the comparison against Bitcoin because with inflation, the whole stock market is going up. Everything's looking great on returns. But only a few of them are really outpacing Bitcoin like the ones that you mentioned, >> Palunteer, Robin Hood, most of them like Apple, you know, you're actually down. If you invested Bitcoin, you would have

22:09less less. So, like what's the point of even making the investment? And I think a lot a lot of people a lot of mainstream investors that are just invested in the fang stocks, they don't look at Bitcoin yet, but they should be because they're probably down in comparison. Um, and so >> yeah, >> they they they are literally like the Argentines. They are uh like an

22:30Argentine who thinks in pesos is getting poorer and poorer every single year in dollar terms. people who look at their investments in any currency that is not Bitcoin, they are being poorer and poorer every single day in Bitcoin terms, right? So, and and this is a like what I always tell many people like think about how much money you had um five years ago in your bank account and

22:53think how how much Bitcoin that was. Now, think about how much money you have in your bank account and hopefully and probably it's a lot more because now you make more money and blah blah. Well, think about how much that Bitcoin is. And that is probably much less than five years ago. So that's exactly the point. Like you can have your investments and

23:10everything, but in our Bitcoin world, in our Bitcoin bubble, in this world where we are like these crazy guys who are clearly wrong per the status quo, we are clearly wrong. We are the crazy ones in the room. Well, for us, for the crazy ones, you you look at your Apple investment in dollar terms. Well, what I see in my world is that each year you are poorer and poorer and poorer, right?

23:33So, this is what we see. >> Yeah. So, let's shift that perspective into the Roxom and how you guys are looking at denominating in in Bitcoin because it is possible to, you know, go onto the charts and sort of compare your stock over to Bitcoin. Um, but it's not like the it's not the go-to and it's not as easy as it should be. Uh, but on on from what I understand on Roxom, it's

23:59like Bitcoin is the standard. It's not this many dollars, it's this many Satoshi's or you know this decimal of Bitcoin. So how does that where do you start if uh because you know shifting the whole capital markets to Bitcoin it's going to happen eventually. Uh but you know, as you said in the history lesson, like there was an agreement and and the strong currency ended up being

24:24uh the the capital market go-to on the New York Stock Exchange. But you know, that doesn't happen overnight where all the largest companies are there and they're not denominated. So where do we sort of start in the in the early days? We mentioned the Bitcoin treasury companies and the miners, but the treasury companies really denominating in Bitcoin. How do when you approach uh

24:44the rock sub markets do people start shifting their mindset to having Bitcoin and then looking at the investments versus how much Bitcoin they're going to make or lose trading and then moving back into Bitcoin. >> Yeah, so that's a a good question. Thank you. So essentially in in Roxom you can look at everything in two things either in Bitcoin or in SATs right um so that

25:11you don't have to deal with decimals so um and it's actually quite funny because uh for me as an Argentine because um with Bitcoin at 100K uh it's like one one SAT is equals to one peso and right now uh like one SAT is like 0.9 pesos or something like that. So actually like like when a stock stocks are usually a similar price in pesos and in in SATs,

25:38right? So if a stock is like 300,000 pesos, uh it's roughly like 300 250 60,000 sats. So actually it's quite funny. >> Uh and even when we go have dinner and we see like 100,000 pesos for the dinner, okay, it's like 70,000 sats, right? So um everything in Roxom is bitcoin denominated again sats for nondescim or bitcoin uh if you want for some reason

26:07you want to look at it in bitcoin I look at everything in sachs much simpler and again for me the number is very similar to the argentine pesos and um the charts absolutely everything is bitcoin denominate so um you will see what you will see and you will find in roxom is a completely different world. So, as you said before, um if you if you if you go

26:29to Trading View and you go on Apple, you will see a chart that looks up and to the right. Um but if you go to Roxom and you go to Apple, you will see the Bitcoin version of Apple, which looks like something like down and to the right, like right with volatility in the middle. >> Um and and and that's exactly the beauty because then you actually start

26:48understanding how markets behave in this world where Bitcoin is your currency. And many say that well bitcoin is volatile. Well in fiat because in in my world one bitcoin is one bitcoin. So then what you can being pragmatical though and and and practical what you can understand is that the resulting chart and and price action and patterns that you're seeing is a result of fi

27:12Bitcoin's fiat volatility and the and the assets fiat volatility. Right. Uh but you would get surprised as people who are watching this and and as we did before, you will get surprised on how harmonic Bitcoin markets and Bitcoin price action has gotten. I I call it like the great reset more or less from in 2019, 2020, you have what we call the great reset where Bitcoin stopped

27:39growing like because Bitcoin before went from zero to $1,000 and then $20,000, right? So, >> of course that everything is going to be like hammered. There is no other way to do it. Like if you go to from 1 cent to $20,000, there is no way to like not uh uh be like a massive bare market, what we call the great crisis, a great bare market. But if you go to 2019, 2020,

28:05where Bitcoin is already like three $5,000, then $20,000, that is what we call like the great reset. And actually, because then you start getting like patterns that look more normal. So if you look at any chart from 2020 onwards in Bitcoin terms, so in Roxom, you will if if if you don't know that you're watching uh looking at a at a Bitcoin denominated chart of any given

28:31asset, you will think it's a completely normal um uh chart and you will you will see like okay here we have like the these floors, clear floors that are being respected and you will see how things bounce off at a certain point and and and so on. So actually it's quite interesting to see how um and and if you want actually I I'll show you an example a quick example um but

28:56since we're here because it's it's quite interesting it's quite funny we'll just share screen with you just for a sec um because we did not see see this before and actually it's quite uh interesting. Um so look at this for example. Look at this um uh support. Um you can see at this uh for example important kind of important level. Um so can you see how crazy it is? Like for

29:26this level I I clicked here because I was looking at this candle. But see how the chart respects like this support this support then it goes down support again. Then it breaks it and it goes down to this channel support here. This works like kind of a resistance that is kind of pushed through but then goes back again to the support goes back to the support then you know so when you

29:50start looking at the Bitcoin charts and you say like oh my god like I kind of and then here of course you get strong volatility and this is the S&P so it's clearly going down against Bitcoin but the interesting thing is that you start getting like these strong patterns where if you don't know that uh that um you're looking at again at a Bitcoin denominated chart you You could easily

30:11be looking at a completely normal chart here and saying like okay here we had this strong support. It got tested three four uh three times and in the fourth it just went down and it went and then the support became a resistance and you can see it clearly and then how it goes down and and here the support uh that turned uh into resistance how it continues to

30:31work right so uh here you could talk about a fake out and this is what's crazy about uh bitcoin markets actually if you start looking at things in bitcoin um they are much more harmonic one than than what anybody would think. They are actually they make complete sense and and you can start finding all of these patterns and and and finding everything.

30:54So um and this is exactly what you'll find in Rox. You'll find like this easy way um uh to just understand everything in Bitcoin so you can deploy your capital accordingly. Like again at the end of the day we just did something that we said dude you know what I think in Bitcoin all I care about is uh is accumulating more Bitcoin and if I want to accumulate more Bitcoin I need to be

31:18able to understand the world in Bitcoin. So what can we do to understand the world in Bitcoin to deploy our capital in Bitcoin terms so that we can always um make sure that we are having a strong P&L but in Bitcoin terms right so and this is exactly Roxson where you will find everything is in Bitcoin >> so you can truly understand how your Bitcoin portfolio and Bitcoin P&L is

31:40doing and then yes in our vision and in our road map um we are going to be including stable coins and and so on so that people can trade with any currency and so on. We want to make it very easy but the pricing of assets will remain uh in in in Bitcoin so that just that people can make sure that um they're having a strong performance uh in Bitcoin terms.

32:01>> Right. >> Definitely. Yeah. So you mentioned uh we saw we saw there the the the S&P we also mentioned some of those stocks that have outperformed Bitcoin like like Palunteer, Robin Hood, Nvidia. Um what and you talked about the road map there. So what's the the timeline of importance on what assets are listed first uh on RockSummit and and sort of is there a

32:24tenative timeline and when people can start trading each of these denominated in Bitcoin? >> Yeah, so uh our first three contracts um N sorry S&P, oil and uh gold are going to be uh tradable um throughout the first two weeks of October. And uh we're looking forward to um to launch our um spot markets for US equities and Bitcoin treasury companies

32:52roughly around um mid November. That's the our our target date. Um yeah, >> that's great. And with the denomination in Bitcoin, so is it actually like native Bitcoin? Like for example, you deposit your Bitcoin into the exchange, you trade and then you get back the Bitcoin and you withdraw or is there like synthetics in derivatives and stuff?

33:18>> That's a great question. You actually get uh the the shares, right? So in so sorry I will make a correction because we have two steps in in our road map. Our first batch will be tokenized um stocks. So um you are not owning um technically the paper is not at your name that that has to be mentioned but you have the dividends you will have the

33:46splits like it behaves as if you had the stock but literally if you go to the registry of shareholders of the uh New York Stock Exchange or the whatever you will not see your name. >> Mhm. >> Okay. Um but you will have all the benefits of uh having it at your name, dividends, splits, um everything. Um >> in our phase two, we uh will be making it so uh that you are the actual owner.

34:16Okay. And uh there will be a moment in our platform where you will have a tokenized equities and non-tokenized traditional paper. um that is going to come more or less towards the end of of of the year. Okay. Uh and the reason for that is that um tokenized uh stocks have plenty of benefits but many people like to have uh the paper uh for some reason.

34:42So we can make it possible. >> So we're happy to do so. So we will have a platform where where uh we're going to make it easy and convenient for these two um to to coexist. So people will be able to buy the tokenized version of that for because maybe they want to withdraw it or or do do whatever they want with it or just buy the the trady spot version of the of the product.

35:07>> Oh, that's great to know. And I was going to ask that obviously there's a lot of benefits to holding the stock and getting the dividend and stuff like that. And I don't know the younger generation if they're actually asking for the paper. Uh you know, they just are trading it and then they they they sell it off later. But is that first version is that the same as like

35:26tokenized stock assets and is it actually on the blockchain or it's just a a representation of it? >> It is literally on the blockchain. Uh and in our v1 version you won't be able to withdraw it. Um uh but in our second version like our because for us time to market is important right. So we we're focusing on on launching the product, shipping the product. Um, so it's going

35:52to have more simplified features, but one of the immediate features that we're going to be working on to add um after we launch uh is for people to withdraw um uh their token and stocks um because we understand that there will be an entire DeFi uh world um that is going to be working with these sorts of assets. Maybe you want to get loans and so on and and now we just want to make uh sure

36:16that users can squeeze the most out of the a tokenized product, right? So, um they will be users will be able to withdraw uh their tokenized stocks. Again, not in in in the first launch, but yes, uh in the second wave of product improvements. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, that's really cool. And on the Bitcoin side, having native Bitcoin in there, you know, you talked

36:39about Tim Cook being able to get a return on on his Apple stocks. Uh what about and you mentioned DeFi there. What about with Bitcoin or other, you know, DeFi related activities? Are there other yields? You could potentially find other ways to earn more stack more SATs. Yeah, this is a great point too because for us um bringing capital markets into Bitcoin are the ultimate yield product

37:07for Bitcoin. And why do I say this? Because so far until today, all of the Bitcoin yield products that we've seen out there, all of them, without exception, are black boxes. You put your Bitcoin in, you don't know what's going on in the back end, >> and you get your yield. Um whereas everybody knows how capital markets work and how cash repos work and

37:32everybody knows that cash repos in capital markets are these repos where investors come and if they want to get borrow margin borrowing. So if basically want to get leverage and and basically are borrowing money, they will borrow cash from these repos and they will be posting the equities they buy, the liquid equities they buy as the collateral, right? So cash repos in

37:56traditional markets in trfy are one of the lowest um risk uh yield products uh out there. That is why also cash repos have a comparable uh have comparable rates with um treasury bills because they are very low risk and everybody knows what is happening in the back end. So this is beautiful for to bring into Bitcoin because

38:25everybody knows how the the repos work and our our repos are going to be cash repos and and meaning that we're literally not changing anything. We're just bringing in a model from traditional finance, from traditional capital markets and putting it into Bitcoin. So essentially what will happen is whenever somebody comes and wants to get um uh margin uh to buy a shitload of

38:49um of Nvidia stock or of Panter stock or of Hood stock of or or whatever stock, they will be borrowing Bitcoin. they will be posting um their um their equities as collateral >> and uh they will be paying an a bitcoin interest and this today already exists for for uh most of the big platforms with margin out there. Um this is just that we are let's say opening the access

39:18to these repos for anybody right so if you want uh uh to part because our idea is not to lend the bitcoin ourselves but to actually create the cash repos product because it's much better because instead of um keeping um the interest for us if we can open it up for everybody and everybody can now get a a solid uh transparent and um let's say already everybody already knows how it

39:45works kind of yield product uh then we'll just have much more bitcoin within the the the the platform and our our aum will grow more instead of if we just keep that yield for ourselves right so um and also it adds all of the traditional assets that that today in the crypto world do not exist like uh this uh yield source only exists um for Bitcoin USDT or USDC or Bitcoin USD and

40:14the Bitcoin pairs, right? Uh where you end up for some reason uh borrowing Bitcoin and actually it's not even for Bitcoin USDT. It's actually for the inverse um contracts that you have in platforms like Binance and and and so on so on >> because in all the other platforms unless you're doing an inverse uh contract, you're just borrowing tether, right? So

40:40>> you have the cash repos but in most of the platforms and except for the inverse products you are borrow you are borrowing uh tether or stable coins which means that you're paying a like the yield is in in dollars for those who invest in this kind of cash repo or stablecoin repo. So this for us is uh is one of the most important products because again it means unlocking

41:06transparent Bitcoin yield um for Bitcoin uh in the form of a product that again everybody in traditional finance knows how it works and most people in finance and most people in trading know how a cash repo works. So we're literally not reinventing anything. We're just bringing something that is not out there in Bitcoin today and just plugging it into the into the source. Then as to

41:32DeFi, you were asking, we have plenty of ideas um in to how to integrate DeFi. For now, uh the whole thing will be uh centralized, but we definitely have um uh strong appetite for DeFi. We are Bitcoiners ourselves. We've been in Bitcoin and crypto for a very long time. we see plenty of value in in in putting this into a kind of DeFi layer. Um, one of

41:56the most important reasons for which we're doing it on a centralized uh basis or manner is because of the liquidity. Um, by keeping it centralized, we'll be able to provide much more liquidity and much more depth uh than if it was just DeFi from day one. Um, so if you want to come and you want to place a $10 million, $50 million purchase order, you'll be able to do it. Whereas if it

42:19was on DeFi, you wouldn't. And on the other hand, it is also because for spot markets, as you guys know, um when you have stocks in a broker, you can transfer the stocks between brokers. So, we want to allow um people in trfy markets or that have stocks in traditional broker dealers to bring their stocks into Roxom, right? And if it was only DeFi, that wouldn't be

42:43possible. So, by doing it centralized and and having all of these like Trafy components, we'll be able to allow anybody with stocks in any broker out there to just bring their stocks into uh our um platform so that they can, let's say, start bringing in all the all the Trafy assets and the Trafy paper uh papers into the Bitcoin markets. >> Wow, that's really exciting. I would

43:10love to see uh Elon move some of his shares uh into the Bitcoin markets or something like that. >> 100%. 100%. >> Yeah. So, very exciting and yeah, I completely agree. Uh the the focus should be on liquidity um having the best price and speed and uh and making it an easy transition from Tradfi. Um and we'll worry about the the the DeFi stuff later. Um, but there's so much to

43:38do to reinvent the entire capital markets into Bitcoindeed. Uh, you got to start somewhere. And you mentioned, you know, in the first steps about the S&P, gold, uh, oil and, uh, Bitcoin, Treasury companies. What's the best way for people to like get started, uh, right away on it and then follow along as the updates come out and we get, you know, the the Bitcoin Capital markets grow?

44:02>> Yeah. So, first off, just signing up in in in Roxom. Second off, uh following us on social media, Roxom, uh very very easy. We also have Roxom TV, our 247 um say Bitcoin world news channel uh at Roxom TV, very very easy. And and then we have like very interesting ideas like um we love for example how Hyperlid um keeps their road map open to the public.

44:29Um we are going to be doing something very similar to that. We're going to have our open openly accessible road map. So everybody knows what we're working on next and and we can also have like a transparent and and open discussion with our users and community on what we should build next and so on. So if you're following us on that channels and and and you're signed up in

44:48in Roxom uh not only you'll be able to see very easily um what's coming next but also actually what we want is to encourage everybody to participate of our of our road map because at the end of the day we're building this product for Bitcoiners. I mean we're Bitcoiners ourselves. We're doing this for Bitcoiners. So for us the most important thing is that Bitcoiners are happy with

45:08the product that we're building. >> I love it. Thank you so much for the insights, Bourja. Uh all the best on growing out the Bitcoin Capital markets. I'm looking forward to seeing uh the the first markets trading and I will leave a link to signing up on the platform in the show notes and the social links to follow along and hoping Q4 is prosperous for all Bitcoin holders uh and for the

45:31equity holders as well. and uh they can hopefully get together on Roxom and uh and move their papers over there. That'd be really cool. I would love to have you guys back on, you know, a as the markets go up and as we get into 2026. I'm sure there'll be even more interest for Bitcoin capital markets as more treasury companies are coming out and ones in

45:52other blockchains as well. But the Bitcoin treasury companies continue to explode and uh the there are some pretty high price targets for Bitcoin as well in the near future. I don't think it's uh it's over. Um and uh so yeah, really appreciate your insight and wishing you and the team all the best on on growing Roxom. >> Thank you so much Ashton for having us

46:15and I hope to see you soon again and I hope that everybody who watches this can uh test our product and enjoy it and uh give us feedback.